Food Interview: Chef Lou Lambert On Telling Stories, Teaching, & Old-School South Congress

When one thinks of Austin's recent culinary evolution, you can't help but point to Lou Lambert as the perfect symbol of symbiosis. Lambert is both a seventh-generation Texan and a graduate of the Culinary Institute of America - a Texas chef who loves barbecue but has also cooked alongside Wolfgang Puck. Lambert's mix of classic Texas ingredients with forward-thinking techniques has endeared him to diners in Austin and Fort Worth for years - and now he's finally put all his best recipes and stories in one place. Co-authored with friend and author June Naylor, Lambert's Big Ranch, Big City was recently released to great acclaim. We caught up with Lambert as he drove on I-35 from his Fort Worth restaurant to his Austin one, and discussed everything from the outdated perceptions of Texan chefs to the evolution of South Congress Avenue.

Lou Lambert image via Hutson Creative. Image by Ralph Lauer.

You know, like you said, I've been in the restaurant business, worked my way up as a cook, a chef and then with operating our own restaurants for years. And I've been approached over the years by other chefs, authors, and publishers to do a cookbook and I just really didn't have the desire to do a book just for the sake of putting recipes together. About two years ago, though, I was approached by June Naylor, who I've known for years, who's a writer and who has done cookbooks, and who writes about food and travel. And I said, "You know, I think I'm ready to do a cookbook." Not because I want to throw recipes together, but because I felt that I had a story to tell about how I approach food, about food itself and about cooking, as well as some really good recipes. So it was more of a collection of my philosophy of cooking and my life as a chef told through a cookbook.

Have you found over the years that it is challenging to show Texas cooking in a serious light? You talk in the book and in the surrounding materials about it, that when you were learning French techniques that you saw all the similarities and commonalities between the Texas cooking and some of the things that were happening in San Francisco, but just with different ingredients, and that sort of thing.

Yeah.

Do you feel like the perception of what's happening here in Texas has changed in recent years?

Yes, in that I think over the years people have represented themselves as cooking foods from Texas when in my view the foods they were portraying as kind of "mainstream Texan" were anything but. It was first kind of Southwestern [movement] back in the '80s and '90s. And I grew up in the Southwest, and the foods they were doing were anything but Southwest. Just because you throw a lot of peppers in it doesn't make it Southwestern. And then you had the style of cowboy cooking, and to me Texas foods and cuisines...if you really look at the heritage, yes, the cowboy is part of that, but it's so much more. It's so much richer than just that. So I think we've finally gotten to the point, and not just in Texas cooking, but cooking in general, that people are really interested in where the foods are coming from and getting back to what the real history and culture is around different foods. And I think the same holds true to Texas cooking. So they're taking it much more seriously now. So yes, I think we are at a point now where people are recognizing that we have such a huge food culture and heritage and a lot to be proud of.

I think one thing that may surprise some people about this particular book is that you have a reputation around red meat and barbecue, but there are pretty significant sections in this book about seafood, vegetables, and salads. Was that was surprising to others as well?

I think people that know me weren't surprised. As far as the seafood, my father's family are from Port Arthur and before that, Louisiana. So all of those folks on my Dad's side are from the Texas Gulf. So I grew up visiting grandparents there. And I have a lot of friends today in South Texas, and you're right by the Gulf of Mexico, which has this huge abundant supply of seafood. So it's always played a big part in my life, seafood has. And it's one of the things that I think shaped me as a chef was going to visit my grandparents in Port Arthur and just being fascinated with the seafood and that kind of Cajun culture. So I learned to cook seafood early on.

But the other thing people, I don't think, realize are that vegetables have always been a huge part of kind of "country" or Texas cooking. I mean everyone had a garden, everyone was doing fresh vegetables, so this notion that a cowboy cook or somebody who embraces Texas cuisine doesn't eat or know how to cook a vegetable I think is a little far-fetched. Vegetables are so much more than what you find at a barbecue restaurant if you were to eat in the home of most Texans. So I think you need to know how to cook a proper vegetable.

You have a great ceviche recipe in the book that we've tried at my house. I know some people just want to cook their fish with the citrus juice and you decided to lightly poach your fish in the recipe. Just wondered about the reasoning behind that.

Traditionally, you are correct that ceviche is cooked in the acid, but the reality is in a restaurant setting we do a light poach on the fish because we want to ensure [compliance with] health codes!

Ah, okay.

And the other reality in a home situation, my reality when I'm home is that I cook much differently than I do at the restaurant. And when I'm in a home setting, and I'm having people over for dinner and I want to do a ceviche, I'm going dang, I should've acid marinated the day before or much earlier. This is just a quick and easy way to do it.

Got it.

What I was really trying to do in the book was, you have the sections or the recipes in the book that I kind of qualify as "big ranch" in that they're foods that I grew up eating, and then foods that I cook at home today that are fairly simple and straightforward and approachable to most home cooks.

And then you have kind of that "big city" portion of the book that are recipes that are more rooted in the restaurant, that require a little more skill, a little more time. That ceviche is kind of a mix of those, and I wanted it to be very approachable and something that the home cook could do.

Yeah. It is difficult for someone who their whole career has been writing recipes for professional kitchens to put on a different mindset and hat and write for the home cook, because in a restaurant kitchen there is an assumption that people know all the basic fundamentals of cooking. Whereas doing it for a home cook, you really have to get rid of all those assumptions and write out very technically how to do something.

And that's the big thing I learned in writing a cookbook. You have to be more than just a prose writer. In the book you're writing stories, and writing about products, and then at the same time you have to be kind of a technical writer and be able to write formulas and then technically spell out the method of how you do that. So it's just two different skill sets.

That's interesting that you say that, because you often teach at different places around Texas.

Yep.

Is that rewarding in a similar fashion...in that you're trying to help home cooks get better at putting together some of the foods that you love?

Yeah! I love teaching classes. And it wasn't a conscious decision that I was gonna get out there and teach a lot of classes. I just found it was something that I really enjoyed because you're able to connect one on one with people and get so much more than just a recipe. You're able to tell them about your philosophy of food and then teach them the method. To me, much more important than a recipe is the method of why you do certain things. And that's all a chef is. If you learn the method, all a recipe is is a guideline. You already know how to sauté, how to build a sauce, the principles of baking. And I think the time I've spent doing these cooking classes around the state and around the country, it's helped me to write recipes for the home cook better. Over the years, I get first hand feedback from people in the cooking class saying, "What do you mean by this?" So over the years, I've learned to look at these recipes through the eyes of the student.

You talk about changing your techniques in the book to reflect local ingredients. I thought that one great example of that was the grapefruit and avocado salad. Do you have any absolute favorite fruits or vegetables grown frequently in Texas that you go back to time and time again?

That is tough, because seasonally there is so much great stuff always grown here and being grown here now. I love the citrus from the valley, because I think it's very unique and better citrus than anywhere else in the nation, whether it's California or Florida. I think our soil and climate has produced some really great citrus. I think we do great corn in the summertime. Growing up in West Texas by New Mexico, a lot of great green chilis are there, so I love it when it's green chili season. I love the different fruit seasons because right now I'm working on a baking book. Texas peaches are fantastic. And there's some apple orchards around Fort Davis and I'm digging the apples this time of year right now, too. And working on this new baking book, I've got thirty or so apples on my kitchen counter right now that I'm trying to work through in the different recipes!

Looking back, you did the first version of Lambert's here in 2001, and then the second version in 2006. The Second Street area wasn't super developed at the time, and people were saying, "How can you do fancy barbecue on 2nd? Nothing's over there!" And it seems you've been more than vindicated by what's happened in the area over the past five years.

Well, but the same thing happened to us when we put the first Jo's on South Congress. And that was before the revitalization of South Congress. And there was a piece in the paper, kind of tongue-in-cheek, mocking us: "Who is going to sit and drink coffee and lattes on Congress Avenue?" [Because] at the time it was, pardon my French, but crackheads and whores up and down Congress. And therefore, nobody was going to sit out on Congress Avenue and drink coffee. And we were going, "Well, maybe not, but we're going to give it a shot." And the same thing holds true. With Lambert's on 2nd Street, we had a vision, and I really salute my partners Larry Maguire and Tommy Morman on that as well. That together we had a vision that this was where it was going to be hot and happening. And with every restaurant that I've done and that we've done as a group - you've got to stay true to the foods you're doing and do foods that you love to cook and eat. I mean in our minds, people are going to find you. But above all else, we stayed true to who we are ourselves as restauranteurs.

Thank you for talking to Austinist.

Lou Lambert and June Naylor's Big Ranch, Big City is available now via Ten Speed Press / Random House at Amazon, BookPeople, and everywhere else.