SXSW Film Interview: Bear Boys Malcolm Ingram and Bob Mould

We were curious how drastic a difference it was to film a gay documentary in a comfortable, familiar environment versus filming in the locations that made up Small Town Gay Bar.

Ingram: My whole fear when I started doing Bear Nation was there`s a familiarity to the whole kind of environment, but also there`s a sense of you don`t wanna shit where you eat. You know what I mean? I`m a Bear, I`m a total Bear. I`ve gotten so much from this world. It`s been a real gift for me and it's just kind of like, "Do I wanna be the guy who`s gonna be the voice, one of the voices, of this?" It's like I don`t know if that`s my place. You just feel really weird about representing something you're so ingrained in.

There's been a lot of good buzz about [Executive Producer] Kevin Smith's involvement, who`s a close friend of yours, but how about you two? How did the documentary director meet the music legend?

Bob Mould: Well I heard about it through Arts&Crafts in Toronto that [Ingram] reached out to—the record label. They got a hold of my management and asked me and I said sure. It turned out last October I was doing a rock band tour that happened to start in Toronto, so Malcolm came down with the folks and we sat after sound check and talked for a while. I was a little nervous about it for some of the same reasons you just mentioned. It`s like we all just do our thing and we all make little contributions to this big community. It's like assuming sort of a spot on screen or something, it's like mmm boy. In the past with the gay community I've not been the greatest spokesperson, so I always get a little like, "Man, I just like doing my thing." Sometimes I blurt, but it all worked out good, I think. The wonders of editing.

[To Ingram] So you had Bob in mind?

Ingram: Yeah, I knew that Bob was doing this thing Blowoff. The thing about it is I've been such an incredibly insane, huge fan of the man. And it was one of those things where you're just, like, WOW. Is this gonna work out where essentially I`m gonna be able to put somebody like this and actually interview them in a movie? The whole thing was thrilling. It was so completely awesome, 'cause I can`t even tell you how big of a fan I am. Like I have everything this guy's ever done on vinyl.

Mould: He does. [laughs]

Ingram: [laughs] Now I'm coming across stalkerish.

Mould: Ahhh!

Ingram: It's just so thrilling to have the opportunity when worlds collide like that. Basically, I started listening to Bob in my formative years, so his opinions are very much part of my voice, essentially his kind of attitudes and his music helped guide me to the individual I am. You put yourself in a situation where this person is now a part of something that you`re doing -- words can't even describe it. It`s a privilege. It`s an honor.

Mould: The thing for me that was great is Malcolm showed me the film last month and I got so wrapped up in everybody else`s stories, their journeys and what they shared that it was like I forgot I was in it. Then when I showed up, I was like, "Ah!" These guys are really sharing discovering where they belong, not feeling like part of mainstream gay culture or the world at large. I can identify with that--I think we all can to a degree--and to see it all come full circle from where I started years ago in sort of this roundabout way getting involved with this subculture that is so comfortable for me. It`s sort of crazy. I didn`t see it coming.

[To Mould] You`ve actually been involved with multiple niche communities—the underground music scene, professional wrestling, and the Bear branch of the larger gay community—do you find yourself drawn to specific subsets or is it unintentional?

Mould: I'm the kind of guy who if people didn`t call and say come do stuff, I would probably just sit at home and do my work and never leave the house. So it`s nice when I go out and people are like, "Oh yeah, well we do this thing and you might like it." I find people are very inviting and that`s how the world sort of works. If you just leave the house and get off the computer, you run into people who have the same sensibility and that's how community gets built. I think it's really important that people remember that in this day and age. It`s sort of good stuff.

SXSW had mentioned a woman in the film mistaking a Bear pride convention as a trucker's union convention. How do you respond to that kind of interpretation of the group?

Ingram: There is an aesthetic to the whole Bear culture...when you go to a Bear convention, the last thing you're going to think is that these are guys that suck dick. You know what I mean? And I love that. I mean it's great that that's how she interprets it. Not that there's anything wrong with sucking dick or that I want to hide from anything, but its always great when you kind of play with people's expectations of what they think a man should be or what they think masculinity is and all that kind of stuff. When people think, "Look, man, just cause I suck dick doesn't make me less of a man than anybody else." I'm totally fine with that kind of misunderstanding that she had.

[To Ingram] In that same interview, you had mentioned that, before coming across Bear subculture, you noticed you didn't fit into any representation that gay culture had to offer...

Ingram: Oh, I didn't.

You specifically cited Will and Grace, but I was wondering if there was any fringe movie, book, documentary or anything that could be considered part of gay culture that you were able to personally identify with?

Ingram: I mean there was stuff like Todd Haynes was doing that had kinda like a queer sensibility, but that was more mind than body. I understood the queer sensibility and I felt very queer identified, but just kind of like--aesthetically—the person that I was, there was a body attached to it. While I could be intellectually stimulated, there was no place for me for an outlet, really, where I could physically be stimulated. That was a kind of wonderful experience about discovering this Bear world where you found all these misfits. The cool thing about a lot of Bears is that they're very smart, independent minded guys that are just kind of misfits that need a place to kinda like, you know...and it's not just all about fucking—I mean, a lot of it's about fucking—but you know, it's great. Its like meeting like-minded people.

Mould: For me the thing that's been really fun about it is when I first sort of immersed myself in the gay life—and I was a very, very late bloomer—I was very body conscious and very competitive and very status oriented. The last six years sort of hanging out with the guys, it's been...people just aren't afraid to show honest affection, you know? They're not afraid to talk about the things that they're really passionate about. There's not that kinda thing like, "Oh, he likes that." If somebody says they like something kooky, it's like, "Oh that's cool." There's not a lot of judgment that goes on it, which is great.

Ingram: Well there's been some...I mean, it's basically a group formed by people who have just spent their life being judged, I think. People have just had enough fucking judgment. It's like, "Let's just accept." It is definitely more acceptance based. Of course you always have people who come in with their own preconceived notions about the way it should be. Like in the movie we talk about the jocks taking over, where essentially you have this kind of form...but the world's not perfect. I think that in this Bear world, for me, there's a sense that it is kind of my utopia, like I found a really cool place where I feel comfortable and belong in. It doesn't completely identify exactly what I am, but I've gotten a lot out of it.

So I have to throw in an obligatory Austin question: have you been able to pick up on the city's gay community during your visits at all? It's been said that the Austin gay community is totally integrated and, therefore, you can't really target it in any sense. I feel like it's kind of an outdated marketing statement that's been thrown around, because I do feel like, as Austin grows, its becoming a little more separate where you actually get more of a defined gay presence. Have you been able to pick up on any sort of gay community here, or...

Ingram: Like picked up individual people?

Oh, no, no. [laughs] That would be a much more interesting read.

Ingram: Like wondering if it got me laid? [laughs] I was just like, "Wow."

Much better question. [laughs]

Mould: I was at Chaindrive last night. I'm not saying anything.

Ingram: Exactly. [laughs] Yeah, I mean Austin has this great place, the Chaindrive. It's an awesome club. You know what the really interesting thing about the Bear community is that there's such a universality to it. If you go to Austin, if you go to New York, if you go to London, if you go...there is something distinctly the same about the bear community. You'll find a group of guys... it travels. It's so bizarre how it travels. I don't want to put it in the context of a club or something, but it 's somewhere where you know that if I go to London or if I go to this place, I know exactly what to expect. I know that I'll fit in. I know that I’ll meet like-minded people who are into the people like me, and essentially it just makes things easier.

Mould: I think I can speak a little closer...I used to live here. I lived here ’93 to ’96. I was partnered at the time and in the 90’s… Austin has a huge gay/lesbian community—enormous—but, like you said, it’s been integrated for so long because Austin has always been a progressive city. It’s like Austin—and Portland, Oregon is another place—where everything weaves and it's almost invisible in a way, or transparent maybe. It’s not iconic like Christopher Street or the Castro or Berlin or things like that. I think generally, in the gay world, that’s a concern. I’m almost 50 and I see there’s very few gay neighborhoods left because of the integration. As the gay communities advanced this cause, it has sort of become seamless, which is a little unnerving in a way. So I think with the Bear community, there is a sense of identity that’s really comfortable and really nice when you find it. There’s an attachment to it and maybe it’s because…you know, I’m still figuring out how it’s all evolving sort of in a global sense, the gay community or the Bear subculture.

Ingram: Have you seen much of the international side of it? The Bear community?

Mould: Yeah, yeah.

Ingram: It’s pretty fascinating.

Mould: I mean, there’s hotspots for sure.

Ingram: [laughs] Literally -- Barcelona.

Mould: Barcelona, Columbia...

Ingram: Yeah, like Spain… Spain is lousy with Bears.

Mould: Well, they’re furry guys sort of by default. They start with an advantage.

Ingram: And London. London is ridiculous. The Bear scene in London is driving a lot of the gay culture right now. Essentially the nights that are going on in London...are basically Bear driven. Like Bob’s doing this thing, Blowoff. This is a really awesome, cool kind of gay event that has a Bear hint to it, but it’s not strictly Bear.

Mould: It's a music event. We just started playing good music—like indie music and good underground house music—and all of a sudden all the guys came to it.

This was in D.C.?

Mould: Well, it started in D.C. but now we have residencies in D.C., in New York, Chicago and I just moved to San Francisco last October, so we’ve been there for a couple years. San Diego...we go to Atlanta. It’s a music night. It's me and my work partner, Richard Morel, who’s sort of a house remixer. We just did this party where we hold it in rock clubs. We do it at the 930 Club in D.C., we do it at Metro in Chicago, Slim’s in San Francisco and it's great. The Bear community loves indie rock so they’re like, “Oh wow. Dance party at an indie rock club? We’re there!”

You should bring a SXSW day party next year.

Mould: What’s this GAYbiGAYGAY thing that’s happening?

It’s awesome.

Mould: [to Ingram] Have you heard about this? If I’d have known, I’d have stayed all week. I’ve just been travelling so much that I want to get home, but what’s GAYbiGAYGAY doing?

It’s a pretty cool event. It's a bunch of different queer artists, musicians, and...

Mould: And it’s, like, at somebody’s house.

Yeah, it's a backyard party. Great vibe.

Mould: That’s awesome. Oh my God.

So, Malcolm, your director bio is pretty hilarious on the site. You’re apparently into deep kissing, BBQ, beer, rainbows, and petty theft? I was going to say if we actually met at [original meeting place] Ironworks, you would have been able to get all of that and more. But, Bob, do you have any parallel interests as a co-Bear so we can maybe uncover a pattern your documentary didn't catch.

Mould: [laughs] Well, it’s all music. Music first, grilling second, and probably casual dress third.

Ingram: [laughs]

Rusty Spurs is clearly onto something with all that weekend grilling. You can get grizzly with Malcolm Ingram and Bob Mould at Bear Nation's final screening on Thursday, March 18 at 12:30pm, G-Tech.