Zilker Park Costs About $100k To Rent for ACL, Austin360 Reveals

At the very least, one would hope by now that you water-carriers would stop pretending that this is no big deal just because you got to go to a concert you enjoyed. It's a pretty big fucking deal to people who care that our most important public park is now off-limits for many more weeks after being off-limits for many months.

People in New York wouldn't put up with Central Park being off-limits like this for the sake of a private company without raising a big ruckus. Even if their hotel taxes did go up for a few DAYS in the meantime.

And, no, the projections that millions were injected into the economy don't impress me. The only real public benefit comes from those hotel/motel/rental-car-taxes, and we're not talking mega-millions there, and the taxes only come in for like 3 days, not the WEEKS or MONTHS the park is now off-limits.

And Mike, I live in the Zilker neighborhood and the people here are not nearly as upset about this as you are. We think its awesome that we get to have ACL in our backyard.

I actually like the idea of ACL, and I like the idea of it being at Zilker.

What I don't like is the privileged concert-goer crowd belittling legitimate concerns with misleading crap about it being 'only 3 days' and talking about the injection of money into our economy, which is BS. If you frame your arguments with "these many WEEKS will still be worth it because...", then we'd have much less to argue about. But you don't; you keep acting like it was only 3 days, and the public will get to enjoy the park 'all fall', and other crap like that.

Look Mike, it isn't like C3 seeded the clouds so the rain would come down all weekend. They are out the money making any necessary repairs. I for one remember what it was like before they renovated it - the grass sucked! And it isn't like our wonderful city council, all to happy to spend millions on a water treatment plant we don't need, would ever spend that kind of cash on Zilker. So yes, I'm fine with it being closed for renovations and if the one paying for the renovations has to shell out some more and take a little more time, that's fine with me. Without ACL, there are ***NO*** renovations!!!!

And there we go again with the misleading framing.

The old crappy grass/dirt mix could have survived being tromped on for 3 days and would likely have been reopened by now. Yeah, it'd not be as nice, but it'd be open by now. People would be out there kicking a soccer ball around or having picnics - just like I saw every weekend when I'd head out to play volleyball (are those courts even accessible now, btw?)

You keep making the point that they're going to fix up the grass they put in. Great. Just be honest about the fact that the park is going to be closed for WEEKS, not DAYS, for the benefit of a festival that was open to a fraction of the public at fairly high prices. You can't have a realistic idea of the benefits and costs if you keep pretending that as long as they fix up the grass, there's nothing lost.

Who is framing things in a misleading way? I said I would rather have the park closed for a few months plus a few weeks after the event (where did I say 3 days???) in return for awesome grass and renovations for the next however many years. You disagree and that is your right. But in this case your rhetorical abilities suck since it boils down to putting words in my mouth to try to prove your point. Lame!

"it isn't like C3 seeded the clouds so the rain would come down all weekend."

frames it as "the only reason it's closed is because it rained". I pointed out that the old, lame as it was, mix of dirt and buffalo grass and weeds would have likely been open by now.

You also used "a little more time" in a way that made it sound like it had just been closed for a little while and might be closed for a few days more. How about talking about it being closed for a LOOOOOOOONG time, basically the entire fall, because that's what it's shaping up to be?

Wes, you're an asshole. It makes me happy to say that.

Ryan, no squirming here; I've been very consistent; I like the idea of ACL; I hate people minimizing this problem as something that was truly an act of God, or "only 3 days", or all worth it as we enjoy the park all fall and winter.

Using your own framing this time,

"Do you think the same result would have happened without the new grass?"

or

"Do you think the same result would have happened without the festival?"

It's abundantly clear to anybody with any interest in fairness that the park will have been closed essentially all year because of ACL. There might, at some point down the road, be some benefit to the public, but then again, maybe not; as pointed out elsewhere, some previously allowed activities are now permanently prohibited even if the lawn ever re-opens.

Let me ask you a question, seriously; can you envision ANY length of time the park would be closed for you to start to wonder if it was worth it? What if it only opens up a week before closing again next summer for the festival preparations? Would it have been worth it then?

Cool, then they have a $3M head start right? They didn't have to pay for the restoration.

No. No head start. The old contract was negotiated assuming the park would actually be usable by the public immediately after the festival and would only be closed before the festival for a couple of days.

Then you admit that it's not the rain's fault the park is closed. Good start.

As for how long it's going to be closed, today's news not so good. http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/2009/10/13/1013zilker.html

The Great Lawn will be closed through the end of the month, Strong said, and officials aren't sure yet if it will be closed beyond that.

And I just swam at Barton Springs this morning, BTW; you're wrong to imply that most of the park is open; the 'part' that's closed is the vast majority of the park people actually use(d). Can't play volleyball; can't play soccer; can't fly kites; can't throw frisbees.

Buffalo weeds to sit on was better than not being able to sit at all. It remains to be seen whether the new grass setup is fundamentally flawed - I could certainly see this being a recurring problem (rain + any use = off limits for long time). Hey, maybe we can close the park for two years so C3 can pay to put in french drains. We'll all be better off when our grandkids get to use the park, someday, as long as one of the private owners doesn't have dibs!

Wes, you're an asshole. It makes me happy to say that.

Gee Mike, I'm not sure whether to take that as an insult or a compliment since you're universally recognized as the biggest asshole here.

"I know you are but what am I" just keeps delivering for you, doesn't it?

You know what Mike? I like living in-town and driving a fuel efficient car but you're such an ass that I'm going to buy a McMansion in Dripping Springs and a Chevy Tahoe just to piss you off. Thanks for subsidising my new lifestyle, sucker!

Wes, rather than actually add anything substantive to this discussion, you led with the ad-hominem personal attack. Not me, you. If it now causes you intense butthurt to be called an asshole in return, I'm sorry. Not for you, for everybody around you.

@Mike

Being called an asshole causes me no consternation whatsoever, I've been called much worse. Seriously though, you seem to be a miserable person. Perhaps you should talk to your doc about starting on an SSRI. Have a nice weekend.

Wes, a much more reliable indicator of an awful, angry, person is the tendency to jump into a fairly substantive discussion between some unrelated parties and lob a personal attack at one of the participants.

Just sayin'.