The Daily Photoist: October 2, 2008

I've had enough of this. Let's move to LA and turn it into Austin.

The irony of YoYoMa calling anyone else bitter is just too sweet to withhold comment.

Irony noted.

Speaking of self-fulfilling stereotypes, Stella, one can consider your argument as "proof" that Texans are a bit insular and somewhat naive.

That is, if one is willing to jump to conclusions based on circumstance and "nuggets of truth".

This is the most clichéd picture I've ever seen. You all sit around all day just WAITING for somebody to mention growth or condos so you can jump all over it and spew meaningless bs, always from the same bitter losers.

The trees comment was about Texana and nostalgia, not a comment about sustainable building.

I think a lot of Texans and Austinites are a little tetchy about Californians moving into Texas because it's so "cheap" to buy $250,000 houses (or 500 sq ft condos) here and the resultant cultural shift. "The Californians" are a scapegoat and a stereotype, sure, but there seems to be an underlying nugget of truth in there, too.

I also agree with Ersatzeric that there's plenty of blame to go around among "the Texans that sit on in the state legislature and the city council" - the latter of whom I specifically mentioned.

I love Austin. I don't think it should never change. I don't think it was "better" in 1972. But I don't want to be priced out of the best city in my own state. I think there is a lot of heartache being felt by other people like me, and that's why the juxtaposition of timely metaphors in this picture seemed interesting to me.

I think this point in my first post has been purposefully overlooked.

Density = good.

Construction = good.

But how do you square this with your lament about lost trees? Density, to me, means up, with artificial materials. But it's hard to make crepe myrtles blooms from concrete. What does density mean to you?

And specifically, your photograph, like your post, foregrounded the Californian/non-Austinite aspect. It's more than a little disingenuous to now claim you were misunderstood.

"Density = good.

Construction = good.

Overpriced, oversaturated development with little to no attempt by the city to create - and residents to demand - real affordable units = bad."

If there's not 'demand' for that 'supply', then prices will go 'down', and you'll be proven 'wrong'. Unless you really HAVE disproven economics 101. Then you really do deserve that Nobel Prize.

Here's the kicker: New construction will almost always be more expensive than it was ten years ago or ten years before that. Without this new construction, the ten year old stuff won't get as cheap as it otherwise would (in real terms). Do you expect somebody to pay top dollar for land and then put up really cheap stuff on it? That's not called 'development'; it's called 'stupidity'. But so is not expecting a ton of new units, whatever their price, to have an effect in lowering price pressure on existing housing units.

Please feel free to interpret all those single quotes as sarcastic.

They're buying condos, keeping Starbucks in business, and making us wear a tie to court.

"I've lived here for almost 25 years, and every five years a new generation discovers that Austin is being overtaken by evil Californians and tall buildings that are destroying Austin's natural greatness. It's the liberal urbanite version of right-wing anti-immigration hysteria: they're taking our lifestyle away!"

Well said. How long have you folks lived here anyway? What the fuck is "liberal", "proactive", or progressive about being provincially isolationist?

Hilarious.

I grew up in Austin, and consider the Bay Area my 2nd home after living there many years as well. Both are incredibly cool places with their own unique flavors, people, etc, etc.

What exactly are these evil Californians doing to "your" precious town?

And what the hell are you doing to make it so "cool"?

Ugh...

:D

I just wish more of an effort was made to ensure the inclusion of REAL affordable units in these areas, for those of us who are NOT real estate speculators, silicon transplants, or trust funders.

"Non-Texans," in your lovely, delicate phrase, are not to blame for this. Texans are, specifically the Texans that sit on in the state legislature and the city council. This has nothing to do with Californians.

Not selling, approving loans for such risky endevors.

They won't be many people around to pay it if the banks keep withholding loans or if better regulation over the industry makes them stop selling 750 sq ft condos for $500,000.

Stella, that's all they can do when they know you're right. They call you names. It's pretty fun to call them names too.

"This sums it up" to me, the photographer, in that property prices have skyrocketed, largely due to an influx of non-Texans (and some rich Dallasites and Houstonites, yes).

No. Goddammit. Property prices have skyrocketed because we live under capitalism, for which everything is a commodity that can be speculated on and profited from. Property prices have gone up because people can make money off property, as long as there are people around who can pay for it. And it doesn't make a damn bit difference whether the person handing over that money has a drivers' license from Texas, California, or Tokyo.

I love the Austin climate, but it isn't many people's ideal climate. There's no fall or spring, little rain, and hot as fuck day and night in summer.

I know some real estate people. They walk into the bar, you say, "How's it goin'?" and everything is golden. 5 drinks later and the sky is falling. I have great hope even in precious Austin, real estate still has a long way to fall because that's the way the dominoes have been set up.

"I agree with the posters who see urban infill and skywards development as a good thing, some kind of development being inevitable. I just wish more of an effort was made to ensure the inclusion of REAL affordable units in these areas."

I think this point in my first post has been purposefully overlooked.

Density = good.

Construction = good.

Overpriced, oversaturated development with little to no attempt by the city to create - and residents to demand - real affordable units = bad.

And, to mdahmus: Petty, personal, sarcastic insults make one resemble Sarah Palin.

A. For years and years, absolutely. It was only 2004 when denser zoning was allowed for West Campus, which is after all the subject of this post, and even more recently that VMU was put on the table. Perhaps instead of "anti construction" the term should be "anti density."

B. If you think Austin is a city without good amenities, or climate, you should consider moving somewhere that does. As for jobs, well, the economy is going down, but Austin was still second in US markets in job growth through this year. Look it up.

C. Forbes this year found that Austin's the fastest growing metro area in the country. Real estate prices are still increasing here year over year, albeit at lower rates, while they are dropping in the rest of the country. Fact and information may not mean much to you, but there it is: reality.

D. Speaking of reality: Hold your breath and wait for that house to be 125k again, like in the good ol' days.

E. Don't forget the patriotic photo op on the deck of a carrier.

D.

A. You're kidding, right? The city counsel is anti-construction?

B. Nix on the job growth. Nix on the amenitites. Triple nix on the climate (this is really funny).

C. I don't think the demand is there anymore judging by real estate prices even on new construction. Have you been paying attention? We're currently at a state where we've overbuilt and the developers couldn't find enough residents for these places before the market tanked and banks stopped passing out loans. Do you honestly think the developers of the not-yet-complete Austonedian are going to make their money back? Do you honestly think anyone is going to want to live there? Do you honestly think the banks are going to approve the crazy mortgages probably taken out for these as-to-be-completed condos?

D. Not for long.

E. Having one custom made in Bush Red and Cheney Grey as we speak.

"I worry about these luxury apartments in West Campus because they will make an already ridiculously overpriced neighborhood unlivable for students like me coming to UT from small towns in beat-up used cars, who work while being the first in their family to get a degree."

Huh. Notify the Nobel committee. Possible prize winner in economics forthcoming; insists has disproven theory of supply and demand. Stay tuned.

Right on! I agree & identify with your points Stella. I was born & raised in San Antonio, then moved to Long Beach, CA (nightmare) then moved back to San Antonio & then finally to Austin. I agree with you on this city being hyper Texas, and also very anti-Texas. That is why I could live here enthusiastically for the rest of my days.

The old water treatment site on 2nd will be a large mixed use project with affordable apartments. In addition, there will be donations to the city's affordable housing fund for each condo sold.

http://www.austintowers.net/Austin_Downtown/files/trammell_crow_to_develop_austin_green_site.html#unique-entry-id-199

Too bad irony is dead. Otherwise, more people would see the irony of the situation: the provincial, "nobody should be allowed to move to Austin! They'll change our city!" is one of the main causes of Austin being too expensive for anyone but east or west coasters to come to central Austin.

Here's how it works:

A. Our city council and neighborhood associations strive to prevent any new construction they can in the name of protecting the Austin that they love. This should keep people away!

B. But oh no! We live in a desirable city with good job growth, nice amenities, and a good climate, so people are moving here anyway! Evidently, somehow, we live in a free country, where people can move from one place to another! Without even getting that new city's permission first!

C. Having prevented the construction of new housing in the most desirable parts of our city for years and years, there's now really high demand for the little that exists. Sellers find that they can name their price and get it, because what they got is in short supply.

D. Now it's $250k for a 1000 square foot house in north hyde park. Who can afford that? In large part, the very people the "keep out the californians" crowd so very much fears.

E. Fly the Mission Accomplished banner.

Also, the way the boring, concrete tower is looming over the Texas vernacular house, with its crepe myrtles and pecan tree, is quite menacing, and underlines my point about Austin becoming less Texan. Didn't Kelso suggest developers torched the Governor's Mansion so they could build a condo there? Prime site for lobbyists, oil execs, and the like.

"This sums it up" to me, the photographer, in that property prices have skyrocketed, largely due to an influx of non-Texans (and some rich Dallasites and Houstonites, yes). This has made it impossible for Texans who want to remain in Texas but do not want to live in small (-minded) towns or in Dallas or Houston to live here.

Downtown and virtually all of "centra Austin" is completely unaffordable, and first time buyers must now move near the edges of the county (unless they are from California and think our houses here are "cheap" at $250,000 for a non-gentrified, 2000sq ft, 1960s starter home or have rich parents who make their downpayment). I agree with the posters who see urban infill and skywards development as a good thing, some kind of development being inevitable. I just wish more of an effort was made to ensure the inclusion of REAL affordable units in these areas, for those of us who are NOT real estate speculators, silicon transplants, or trust funders. People like teachers, police, retail workers, UT staff and students. I worry about these luxury apartments in West Campus because they will make an already ridiculously overpriced neighborhood unlivable for students like me coming to UT from small towns in beat-up used cars, who work while being the first in their family to get a degree.

I came here from East Texas at age 17 because I wanted to live in Austin, not Los Angeles, not Dallas, not Williamson County. The "Texan-ness" of Austin has been continually eroded - this is obviously a double-edged sword. I have personally always loved Austin because it is simultaneously anti-Texas and hyper-Texas.

People should have the right to move wherever they want. And I do understand that a lot of Californians (and others) are finding themselves in the same situation we are vis a vis decreased real earnings, inflationary property prices, job scarcity, and a desire for a non-suburban lifestyle in a sunny clime. But I do share the feelings of some previous posters and commenters on my original Flickr photo who wonder why some of these folks come here if they hate Texas so much. I propose that all new residents of Travis County should have to live elsewhere in Texas for at least ten years before immigrating here.

I am sort of joking.

Remember the Alamo.

I think he means that Austin is liberal and the citizens used to have no acne.

What in the hell is a "liberal proactive city"? And what does that, whatever it is, have to do with its tendency to blame its problems on outsiders? Liberalism and exclusion based on identity are not mutually exclusive. In fact, in my experience, liberal havens are some of the most provincial places in the U.S.

WAS a liberal proactive city. It also WAS a town with no boutiques, good BBQ and a place where you could go to a movie premiere in shorts, no shirt and flip flops a couple of years ago. A lot has changed in this town.

"Who are you hearing these complaints from? People in the service industry, real estate industry or just a wide variety of people?"

Photography contributors to hipster websites, mostly. Heh. No really, young urbanites who are at the same time gleefully colonizing East Austin.

It's no news to me pal; Austin is a liberal proactive city, and you just display a bitter image that is quite unsettling, even to locals.

I'm not worried. This whole bailout mess has the market spinning. I expect to be renting one of those downtown apartments for about $250 a month in a couple of years once all these people that heard Austin was cool find out it's just hot and miserable and move to Portland.

libertybluff, don't act like you were born yesterday. This fight didn't start with a photograph.

Don't worry, Loudmouth. Austin will never be like LA. For one thing, the roads here aren't built parallel or on a grid. For another, there's very little signage on the freeways. Also, public transportation is weak, there are only a handful of restaurants open 24h, and no matter what you consider Barton Springs, it ain't a beach.

Also, the California boogeyman has been around for years. I was first made aware of it in 1981 as an 11 year old who just moved to Portland, OR. A judge told my mother who received an arguably bogus traffic ticket that she should change her Cali license plate ASAP. Otherwise, she was "asking for trouble".

The Cali boogeyman continued for me as I later in life moved to the glorious confines of Hoboken, NJ, and was told on a very regular basis that I should just go back to my fruit and nutty left coast state.

Having been out here for about 10 years, I'll tell you that this phenomenon has been rampant throughout my tenure. As a helpful hint to this VW driver, and any other Californians, when asked "How long have you lived here?" you should answer, "Not long enough," and try to end the discussion right there.

Maybe it's the years and years of distain the entire country has had to endure from the Hollywood elite for so many years. Could be it's a difference in attitude. Possibly we all just see each other as ridiculous and like pushing each others' buttons.'

I think if we saw a lot of people on the road driving like maniacs and they all had New York liscence plates, you'd hear a lot about how much they suck all the time. We don't see, hear, or have to contend with a lot of New Yorkers really so you don't hear a lot about them. Who are you hearing these complaints from? People in the service industry, real estate industry or just a wide variety of people?

Maybe it's the outsiders' hatred of the rest of Texas that has created so many boogeymen int he first place.

wow, I never realized Austin was so discriminating. Good way to start a ridiculous fight.

Yeesh. I was just joking about the "confused" thing. I think we can agree, though -- as Bill Clinton might say -- that Austinites' hatred of outsiders is able to create a great many bogeymen who have a great number of nefarious ends.

Another thing you're wrong about it the argument that Californians are turing Austin into Dallas. That's not right. They're trying to turn Austin into LA or SF. The Dallas(ians?) are trying to turn Austin into Dallas. The Houstonians are trying to turn Austin into Houston.

At least I didn't hear about the Californian hate during the tech boom because I suppose they were all living in the Silicon Valley and most of our tech start ups and .coms were local.

No. No. I know I'm right and you're the one that is confused. I remember very clearly that it was everyone bitching about how people from Houston and people from Dallas were turning Austin into Houston or Dallas until just a couple of years ago when all these Californians really started pouring in and everyone started hating them. There always have been the students to hate. The Californian hate started around the time that their real estate reached its peak and they started moving here because the homes were "cheap".

I'm not mistaken the building photographed is apartments.

I guess it would be so much better to tear down wooded areas & build ugly houses instead of tearing down condemned lots downtown to build "skyscrapers of the apocalypse"

I think you are confused. It's the Californians that are turning Austin into Houston and Dallas.

[In the early 90s and then again in the mid 90s, it was California tech money that was said to be destroying Austin.]

I don't remember it being Californians until a few years ago. Before that it was Houstonians and Dallas(ites?).

Yes, Californians are spawn of Satan. "They" are killing "our" beautiful city. Skyscrapers are a sign of the apocalypse. Etc. etc.

I've lived here for almost 25 years, and every five years a new generation discovers that Austin is being overtaken by evil Californians and tall buildings that are destroying Austin's natural greatness. It's the liberal urbanite version of right-wing anti-immigration hysteria: they're taking our lifestyle away!

Yeah, that condo sure is pretty. What an innovative design. Never seen anything like that before.

agreed with the building up factor. They could be tearing all those beautiful old homes in & putting ugly box track homes. . .

The Cali VW owner bought the house behind the blue one...tore it down...and is in the process of building a nice but modest dwelling that fits in with the neighborhood character.

If I had a band, it would be called the California Boogiemen. And all of you would hate us, no matter how cool our haircuts.

At least it isn't sprawl, better to build up than out.

Well, At least it's a blue state.