Las Manitas Closed Forever

LM, there are 3 others that voted for the loan still suckling the public teat: Wynn, McCracken & Martinez.

YoYoMa is a continual font of wisdom and intelligence. All bow before the insightful and beloved YoYoMa.

Scooby, we voted Jen Kim out. Wasn't that good enough?

Are there really people stupid enough to get into an argument with LoudMouth? Has he ever said anything worth taking seriously?

They get graded down for the attempted shakedown. You're not the only one that gets to hold a grudge around here, LM.

Oh, and the council-critters that were pandering to the anti-development crowd get a share of ire as well. There's plenty to go around, so don't think I'm singling out the sisters.

If you want to be mad at someone, be mad at the people that offered the damn loan.

Newsflash two years ago: They didn't take the taxpayers money you moron.

I walked through the kitchen on a weekly basis to get outside and saw a spotless kitchen and the same longtime workers, year after year.

You're telling me some bullshit from a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend's sister's cousin's uncle's gay lover about the kitchen being dirty.

Meanwhile, you'd never been there and didn't even know you could walk through the kitchen at any time you wanted to.

Why the fuck do you think I'd believe a word you have to say about anything?

LM, you have your head so far up the putrid asses of the Perez sisters that you are completely unwilling to hear anything less than overly positive about that wretched pair.

The people I knew who worked there I have known for years and have worked at other restaurants with.

I've more reason to believe them than some twit who for some reason appears to worship the Perez sisters.

Tell me this.

Putting aside the disgusting food and racist comments..

Do you really believe they deserved taxpayers money to move to a building they already own and should have used for their business in the first place?

LM,

I can believe that Eddie V's was built on a toxic waste pit, because it was a tire shop before it was a restaurant.

More power to the Perez sisters for shaking down the developers, but when they come to shake down the rest of the city, i.e. taxpayers like me, they can FOAD.

If I told you, JTR, that Eddie Vs was built on a toxic waste pit, the waiters jerked off into the clam chowder and the secret ingrediant of their most popular dish was feces and I knew this because the waiters and cooks were my best friends, would you believe me?

Comments on the character of the Perez sisters aside, the belief that Las Manitas was the soul of Austin is a bit absurd. There are plenty of other places that could claim this title over Las Manitas (read as they have been here much, much longer or have already gone the way of development). We won't get it into that as most people weren't around when those other places were here. The place had a cool location and a rather Austin feel to it, but it only got its attention because of its location.

The fact is that they leased the space, they didn't own it and the owner can do with it what they like. Let's not forget about that little alley in the back. If Marriott is moving forward, then they must have been granted rights to it and in order to do that , they had to get the rights from the Perez Sisters (that has always been my understanding) and I'm sure there was a check involved at the transfer of those rights. So let's not jump to conclusions about who the big bad bully is here. Sometimes people do choose to sell their soul.

You are so full of shit, the blind can see right through you. Sounds to me like you have no idea what the hell you're talking about and I have no reason to trust a word you say.

There you go. Acting as I thought you would.

What is it that makes you such a blind and rabid supporter of the horrible, hypocritical, and immensely annoying Perez sisters?

That place was disgusting.

Seriously, try to find someone who worked there and ask them about the quality of the food.

Ask them how often the sisters would actually do the things that every restaurant owner should do.

Also, ask them about the nicknames she had for her Mexican brethren.

Those sisters do not deserve your praise and defense.

They should have been run out of the city the second they went on their rant about "their struggle" being "Mexicans vs evil whites".

Though I think they deserved to be run out when the loan was being considered.

We as a city should never have to pay for a dump such as that.

Especially when it's run by human garbage like the Perez sisters.

JTR, you ignorant dog fucker, you walked through the kitchen to reach outside seating. You could see how clean it was yourself.

I'll be the first suicide bomber if tamale house or mi madre's falls under the axe...

But manitas?

Please.

The food wasn't very good.

Hmm.. It seems as though LoudMouth has been brainwashed by the so called "plight" of the Perez sisters.

Please. This place did not deserve a loan, it did not deserve all the wasted time and attention it received.

Las Manitas is/was a shithole. Plain and simple.

I've known people who worked in the kitchen and simply hearing the stories of how they clean or rather don't, made me want to puke.

The sisters are not worth rallying around.

Their comments painting their "struggle" as the Mexicans versus the evil whites were pathetic.

Even more so since they loved bad mouthing their Mexican kitchen staff.

All this bullshit about Las Manitas being the soul of Austin has got to stop.

Austin has had/currently does/and will continue to have a soul long after people forget about that mediocre restaurant.

I'm just glad we didn't have to pay for them to close or move or whatever they're planning on doing.

How many other ACTUAL landmarks have we seen close down and not offered any help by the city of Austin?

Where were the people whining and crying about the "soul" of Austin then?

If they didn't want Las Manitas to move they should have just opened the damn place in the building they actually own.

I know this is long winded and probably not structured correctly.

However, I'm beyond tired of seeing the same mindless crap about how unfairly the sisters and their infested restaurant were treated and how we should all look upon their closing as a sad day.

No, we should all see it as a great day.

Even greater if Las Manitas never opens again, anywhere.

So what is that 5 year old going to tell me again? I'm confused. So the solution is to require the current owners of the Onion and the gallery buildings to own them forever? And by virtue of that local ownership they will not develop it and keep their rents low so that local businesses can lease from them? Just what are you advocating, you know, policy-wise that is going to sustain that situation? My guess is that no one wants to rent crummy buildings except for those businesses, which is great. But I think the owners are just waiting until the land is worth more so that they can sell it or develop it themselves. I think the virtue you extend to local owners is a stretch.

You don't seem to realize that what you think of as a shitty restaurant was packed to the gills everytime I went in, was very good and affordable food, and was a cultural icon worth saving to many many people in this town.

Just because you'd rather see another empty hotel for out of town visitors that only fills up once or twice a year with NO street level retail and NEGATIVE parking for people that actually live here does not make you RIGHT about all things.

Every reaction I give you is honest. For instance, I honestly believe that people who think that increasing the supply of street retail by such a huge amount won't, all else being equal, lead to lower rents for such space are probably too stupid to use the internets.

You don't realize you're being used by the Old Money people like Morrison and Jeff Jack - convinced to vote (or blowhardificate) against your own best interests. Just like "what's wrong with Kansas".

Thank you for showing your true colors, mdahmus. It's nice to hear an honest reaction out of you.

In other words, LoudMouth's plan is to force landowners to allow shitty local businesses to pay substandard rent just because they've been there the longest. Hooray! Just think - we can return to the days when downtown was nothing but car dealers and surface parking lots. I miss those times. So easy to find a parking place. So hard to find anything worth parking for.

The point is that it only made sense to keep Las Manitas downtown when someone (other than the Perez sisters) was subsidising the business. If it makes economic sense to open another taco place on Congress between the river and the Capital then Las Manitas will relocate.

I'm not so sure that the sisters were HAPPY to accept the city's offer of the loan and HAPPY to rebuild. I'm also not so sure that they are willing to take a more extreme financial risk with their business if they ultimately did back away from the city's best offer. I am almost seeing what you're trying to say, Wes, but it just doesn't make sense to me.

There are currently small, dumy, cheap places for people to rent downtown. The old Camp Fig gallery comes to mind as does The Onion pizza parlor. If those places and the buildings they're housed in are sold (or destroyed like the old KOOP building) and replaced with high rise bullshit then that takes out those affordable places and makes them available only to the Austin wealthy.

This is not difficult to understand so if you need me to dumb it down for you even more, let me know and I'll find a 5 year old to explain it to you. It might take a while since children have been banished from downtown since the closing of that pesky Escuelita.

As for what Wes said, what the hell is your point? The Perez sisters were offered a loan which would ease the transition to the building they own, the entire city rained a shit storm down on them, so they turned down the offer for the loan which leaves them with the choice of either taking out a loan to refurbish the building or not taking out a loan and keeping the building La Pena.

How is that so hard to comprehend?

"owned by people outside of Austin and unconcerned with local business, all of the retail space downtown is going to be expensive"

Um, the retail space is expensive whether the owners are local or not. I seriously doubt any local landowners downtown would forgo money for a local business. If it looks like they do, it is probably some tax breaks or other deal where they aren't really losing money. The easy way to fix this is by: 1) entering into a leasing contract for the length of time you want to be in the building or 2) own the building/land.

LoudMouth, I understand your perspective, but it's like understanding the perspective of a three-year-old who believes the computer really runs due to the actions of little demons inside.

Loud Mouth: Notice that the Perez sisters were happy to move Las Manitas when the city was willing to give them a $750k hand out to do it. They only decided that it wasn't worth the trouble after the public outcry over the forgivable loan.

Just because you were born without one doesn't mean that the rest of us have no soul. I've tried looking at the development situation from your perspective, but you lack the ability to do other people the same courtesy. That's why talking to you is like talking to a religious fanatics, your both blind zealots.

LoudMouth, the Perez sisters made a bunch of bullshit claims about how they were being unfairly targetted, and how they shouldn't have to move, and how this would ruin the city.

Kind of like the crap you just spewed.

Supply and demand. Landlords, even rich ones, don't like to leave their space empty. Notice all the incentives in West Campus for apartments these days?

The problem is, you have a completely wrong idea about the character of the Perez sisters. They didn't hold the city hostage. If you ever even went to Las Manitas, you'd know that the sisters were too busy running their restaurant to have the time to hold the city hostage. You'd see that if they were talking with someone from the city, it'd be a quiet, sit down conversation in one of their booths over a plate of enchiladas. Everyone else in the packed restaurant would be screaming at their neighbor, but the sisters always managed to carry on a conversation peacefully and quietly amid all the loud noises and voices. I know the Perez sisters are outspoken at times. But I have never seen them lose their tempers or threaten anyone. I'd like to know where you're getting this "hold the city hostage" idea since I do not know what you're talking about.

My problem with your hypothesis about street level retail is that as long as commercial spaces downtown are nice, new, and owned by people outside of Austin and unconcerned with local business, all of the retail space downtown is going to be expensive. Established local businesses might stick around until their either priced out or sold out, but having only room for elite chains like Flemmings and McCormick and Schmicks robs downtown of its charm. Might as well build highrises on the Capitol lawn if we, as a city, couldn't come together to save Las Manitas.

I don't know if the Perez sisters want to continue their restaurant after all this. I can understand how they wouldn't want to. They're not old, but they're also not spring chickens and converting their art gallery into a restaurant I imagine would be very expensive and difficult. I hope they're able to do that, but I'm not holding my breath for it.

Finally! Now we just need to convince another Marriott to pave over Barton Springs. That place is just taking up space and operating on a shoestring budget. And all those 1-level parking lots around it are totally pointless. This city needs more hotels to bring in even more tourists and transplants!

Whichever one of you is pulling those smash and grabs on Second Street needs to cut it out.

LoudMouth, you're an idiot.

The Perez sisters held the city hostage to support morons who want the city to go back to the days of surface parking lots and empty streets at night. The loss of the opportunity to pressure Marriott for more street-level space is just an interesting parallel to RG4N's stupidity; but it does emphasize your economic illiteracy: increasing the supply of leasable street-level space downtown makes it less likely that said space will be leased only by the rich.

Man, Mike, I've been talking to the Perez sisters, supporting their business and really interested in Las Manitas closing and I have never really realized just how off the planet you were until your comments here. Blaming the Perez sisters for shitty ground level retail in Austin that appeals to nobody but the richest of the rich? Are you kidding me?

PS: This is me being nicer than shilli. Must be the fact that I've spent 4 of the last 8 weeks on business trips in places that are So Much Worse.

I was thinking of you the other day when I drove around that block. It's not as bad as you painted it - yes, the sloping side has no street uses, but they do have some stuff on the other sides, and at least it looks like a building (with windows) - it's not precisely a blank wall.

If there are any updates to the original 2006 rendering, I haven't seen them.

Take a walk around the other downtown Marriott (by the same developer) for a preview:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=marriott&sll=30.265656,-97.739664&sspn=0.100226,0.186596&ie=UTF8&ll=30.266208,-97.740914&spn=0.000783,0.001458&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=30.265816,-97.740975&panoid=-9FYmFHxjKlGgSgXnDjMdA&cbp=2,103.02936875103785,,0,0.13817749614693453

So no change on the whole design of just having a concrete wall along the Congress side? That's going to be awesome! Maybe they'll let someone put a mural on it, but probably not.

I don't think we can blame the Perez sisters for the crappy street front that will almost certainly put in place where Manitas is now. The developer hasn't shown any interest in urbanism and all indications are that Marriott just wants another suburban POS. City council could push for a better design in exchange for letting the developer build over the alley, but I don't think they will. They seem happy enough to be getting another convention hotel. Hopefully they will at least turn down Marriott's request for tax breaks.

I don't think the building is going to have very good street-level retail there; per discussions with Shilli. Had the sisters not engaged in scorched-earth tactics, we might have been able to press the developer otherwise. As with RG4N and Lincoln and Wal-Mart, we lost opportunities for improvement because people were intransigent even when they had no real right to be so.

Note in my comment that "the landlord" isn't Marriott. There's a landlord involved, a developer, and then Marriott itself.

Yeah, from what I read, it definitely seemed like the sisters were not looking for any resolution besides the status quo.

That said, I haven't seen anything that said that any such offer was on the table . . . any links out there to that effect?

It's hard to loose a patio (that was half the restaurant), but excusing that, it seems like moving into the new building would've been a viable solution.

I just doubt Mariott had ever considered it, or anything like it.

The landlord would have been thrilled to have LM accept a spot in the new building. They didn't; they wanted a big payoff (or, better still, to stop the project so they wouldn't have to move off land they didn't own).

I would say, based on the amount of work that they were holding up, along with the very public outcry over the whole situation, that there was probably a big payday for them to pack up shop and get out.

More power to them...hope they open up elsewhere.

I'm sorry that the Perez sisters have chosen to close Las Mainitas but I'm glad that they aren't using my money keep it going.

You're correct - my preference would have been that LM and possibly some additional businesses were allowed to occupy ground level retail, but in the case of LM, I don't even think they wanted to pursue that.

I guess I don't understand why the two are mutually exclusive.

Can't we build yet another Mariott, but have 1700 sq. feet in the bottom for a local, Austin shop, instead of another Mccormick & Schmicks et. al.?

Like, how many sporting goods boutiques and design stores can we fit on 2nd street and the Warehouse district?

Maybe the difference is that it's often below condos, but New York seems happy enough to have a corner deli, dinner, or indian restaurant on the street.

Look, I was all for LM staying where it was. I thought it was a great place and was a staple of what Austin is. But the sisters didn't put up too much of a fight. They put on a good show to display their "Austiness" (is that a word?) but I don't believe their heart was in it. Whether they took a big payday and ran off or just simply gave up we will probably never know, but we do know that they let this all happen with little fanfare after they made their initial stand against the big corporate bully. It's one thing to see and Austin landmark truly forced out, it's another to watch one go away because the owners could have cared less.

Maybe the sisters should have operated their 'landmark' in the building they actually owned. And the people the Marriott brings in will keep a lot more businesses healthy than the one crappy restaurant that the old 1-level-dirt-parking-lot downtown used to support.

Wasn't there at least a less worthwhile landmark they could have demolished? Those old mid-century neon signs are a fantastic part of what makes this town stand out from most of the soulless modern cities in this country.

While having 8 or so Marriot's downtown isn't the best solution, tourism is nice. It does allow for new and existing businesses to grow. If only we could go back to just having all those 1 level dirt parking lots and empty buildings downtown - that would be awesome. Maybe then we could change our motto to "Keep Austin Mediocre and Unsuccessful"

Exactly. More Austin for the visitors and californians and wannabes and less Austin for the people who actually live here. Makes me SO proud to live here right now!

Woohoo!

YESSSS! FINALLY, we're getting a Marriott downtown!