Austinist: Condomania Lives! Mobile Manor Next Trailer Park Casualty.

mdahmus

Sun, 03 Aug 2008 17:17:36 -0600

I'd just amend that previous statement as "PRIVATE open space comes at a high cost and it should". The city ought to keep buying up space for public use, since people with little private open space have more of a need for public open space (which is how you end up with a truly great city).

ratz

Fri, 01 Aug 2008 17:18:30 -0600

Property taxes are not the problem on a piece of land like that. If you are sitting on prime real estate that can be utilized by many versus a few (like a trailer park) and instead choose to sit on it then you should have to pay high property taxes. Open space in a city center comes and at cost as it should.

cram

Fri, 01 Aug 2008 16:53:51 -0600

Seth, Google moved into the building on the Southwest corner of 6th and Congress. I'm sure their office space, like many companies downtown, is considered a perk to their employees. I agree with you on the creating lots in anticipation. That is something I'm concerned about (ie, tearing down a suitable functional low-rise building a la Las Manitas' digs to replace with a brand new tower). I purposefully picked a non-towering building years ago because I wanted to know my neighbors and not ride the elevator with strangers. As for when I moved here, I am a semi-new arrival. I've been here over 8 years now. I was at the tailend of the last silicon gold rush and I have no problem admitting that. I've been here long enough to remember when a lot of things were different, from SXSW being half its current size to the original 2 day ACL Fest to the Backyard having trees and not a Walmart for a backdrop. At the end of the day, I consider downtown Austin my home and I'm sure there will come a day when I am posting blog entries bemoaning the demolition of my favorite things too.

heyzeus

Fri, 01 Aug 2008 16:32:26 -0600

Do any of you think that the owner of this trailer park can even pay his property taxes with the income he receives from his tenants? If it's appraised at a few mil, his taxes are $50k a year or more. What's he supposed to do, keep operating a trailer park on pricey downtown lakefront property at a huge loss so that you can feel good about Austin staying "weird"? Your enemy is not the guy selling his lot to the developer, or the developer. It's our state's tax system that puts the entire burden on property taxes.

seth

Fri, 01 Aug 2008 15:53:20 -0600

Cram, I appreciate your perspective. It's a positive contrast to what I've heard from others working in the downtown tech industry. Frog Design is one company that's getting booted from it's current digs so the landlord can convert the entire building into lofts. I would hope that Google would choose to office downtown and ignore all that cheaper office space on Rundberg. My point about Reddy Ice moving was that it was a nearby supplier to its customers. Forget how many cars its employees put into rush hour. Think more about how much further their trucks have to travel to bring ice to all those downtown customers. My other point about Reddy Ice was that condos aren't only replacing dirt lots or dilapidated buildings. They are creating those dirt lots in anticipation. I get the sense that you're a recent arrival in Austin. Before there were dirt lots, there was something else. Perhaps a live music venue called Liberty Lunch (which got displaced by the CSC building, so it's not a great example). Seth

Waterlewd

Fri, 01 Aug 2008 15:41:25 -0600

We could really improve those density numbers if we didn't have that damn Zilker Park and the greenbelt inhibiting developers. Christ. Dallas is beating us as in the nu-urbanism category. I don't think Zilker is influencing population density numbers compared to other Texas cities. It's a difficult pill for my hipster Austin ass to swallow, but the throbbing shit holes of Dallas and Houston have large urban parks too. I know, right -- crazy that other cities have parks. They probably have a running and bicycle trail too. Holy crap, they do!! How has that not been developed yet? Zilker Park of Austin - 350 acres Memorial Park of Houston - 1,500 acres White Rock Lake of Dallas - 1,250 acres I just can't get enough of this sarcastic, ice cream idealism. yummm...meee.

cram

Fri, 01 Aug 2008 15:27:56 -0600

Seth, I've lived downtown for over 5 years, have owned a condo for 4.5, and have walked to work downtown (in the tech industry) for over 2 years. I'd say I'm pretty knowledgeable about downtown living and downtown employment options. My entire office building is filled with professionals in the non-service/state/courthouse industry. My condo building features a variety of lawyers (government and private industry) and other professionals, many of whom also walk to downtown offices. I know this because I see them every morning walking to work too. I know plenty of other professionals in other downtown condos who also walk to work. A couple of them work with me. I can name quite a few tech companies with office spaces downtown and some of them are hiring. Perhaps you've heard of one called Google? They're looking for dozens and dozens of software engineers last time I checked. There are a number of other high tech companies looking to move downtown in the coming months/year. Not every job downtown is service/state related and the number of private industry jobs for professionals is increasing daily. For most professionals, if a person wanted to work downtown, that person can work downtown at this point. As for Reddy Ice: I still see plenty of Reddy Ice for sale at the local supermarket. Condo development didn't exactly squash the local branch of a corporate giant, did it? According to ReddyIce.com, they've got a facility here in Austin still and I'm guessing no one lost their job because of the move. If anything, some people probably have a shorter commute to work because (if your theory is correct) none of those people were living downtown back when Reddy Ice was a downtown employer. And once again, how are condos squishing out jobs when the condos are built on top of empty dirt lots (Austonian, the W, etc)? Are parking lots truly hot spots of employment activity?

seth

Fri, 01 Aug 2008 14:44:19 -0600

Cram, Yeah. While it was still an operating ice factory, I remember reading in the Chronicle that it was going to close to make way for condos. At the time, it seemed bizarre... Reddy Ice wasn't a precious gem. But it was a downtown employer and supplier of a commodity used heavily by other downtown bars & restaurants. As condos have filled downtown, businesses have left. The idea of building out the core was to have people work and live downtown. Most of these downtown condo denizens commute to the outskirts where their bosses have taken advantage of cheaper rents to set up shop. The biggest employers in the downtown area are the service industry, the state, and perhaps the federal courthouse. Check the salaries for those jobs, and you'll find that those employees can't afford downtown living. They commute from the boonies. When this urban planning scheme hatched in the late nineties, it looked great. Tech employers like CSC, Intel, and Vignette were going to bring thousands of high-paying jobs to the core. The latter two bailed before ordering new business cards. CSC still manages a headcount, but is subletting its building. So the jobs didn't materialize downtown and now are getting squished out by condos. We haven't reduced commutes, and have actually increased them. This barton springs road development will evict low-rent tennants, who might work in the nearby service industry, and replace them with higher-rent tennants who will have easy Mopac access so they can get to their jobs in the Arboretum quickly. Seth

leggyblonde

Fri, 01 Aug 2008 14:25:00 -0600

Yeah i preferred Ruta Maya there too. (I have a Spanish workbook from those days, anyone remember that?)

cram

Fri, 01 Aug 2008 13:51:53 -0600

So the Reddy Ice building was purchased 7.. 8.. years ago? And, it was supposed to be made into a new music venue at some point too. It was falling apart for the better part of a decade. Nonetheless, it was sold by private owners and was an ice factory. If you're going to pick and choose your battles, picking the ice factory as an Austin landmark that deserves to be preserved seems more than absurd. And so does wishing for the halcyon days when Austin was half it's current size.

ducknutz

Fri, 01 Aug 2008 13:37:04 -0600

That's a good point, Seth. I remember when Reddy Ice actually funtioned. It wasn't until the developers bought it (and then let it sit forever) that it started to fall apart. I do think the Austin Music Hall's facelift is warranted and well done. Ditto on City Hall.

seth

Fri, 01 Aug 2008 13:26:54 -0600

Cram, I don't mean to act like a know-it-all, but Reddy Ice became dilapidated because it was shut down and sold to developers for building condos. Prior to the sale, it was a fully-functioning ice factory and was industrial-chic. Condos didn't replace an abandoned factory. Condos made the factory abandoned. We could really improve those density numbers if we didn't have that damn Zilker Park and the greenbelt inhibiting developers. Christ. Dallas is beating us as in the nu-urbanism category. Seth

ducknutz

Fri, 01 Aug 2008 13:20:08 -0600

Yeah, the Reddy Ice building was cool. So were the car lots at 6th & Lamar that used to have the towering light posts that attracted swarms of bugs in the summer (and consequently swarms of bats). I also liked it when the Cedar Door was on Cesar Chavez at Lamar next to the power plant. During the summer (when school was out and everyone went home) you could sit on the patio and hear the water of Town Lake gurgling in the distance. Austin had a lot of charm back then. More trees and more raw acreage downtown. And Grape Ape, Austin hasn't had a shortage of bars nor restaurants for at least 30 years.

ratz

Fri, 01 Aug 2008 11:32:23 -0600

Q:Are we not men? Austin:We are devo!

Grape Ape

Fri, 01 Aug 2008 11:14:29 -0600

Man I really wish we just had those crappy ass car lots back at 5th and Lamar, it was so cool back then. Remember when you could walk from 5th and Lamar along the tracks and were in fear of being mugged because there was no life whatsoever between there and the music hall. That and Whole Foods, Pure Austin and the slew of other shopping options and bars are so not Austin and so ugly. Please give me back the unmowed hay that towered on the side of the road back then. Come to think of it, could you bring it back to 4 lanes and make it 2-way please, that would be so great for traffic. And all this extra parking downtown for people visiting, curse you - please why could you not have left those single level dirt lots in place and continnue to charge me more and more each week!? Things were so much better then. Lord, I can only remember the glory days when I only had 2-3 options for bars or eateries in various parts of town. Now there are so many it just confuses me. DAMN YOU PROGRESS!!!

cram

Fri, 01 Aug 2008 10:54:09 -0600

You liked the Reddy Ice building? When was the last time you saw the Reddy Ice building? It was a collapsing turd that housed more rats than ice cubes. I don't disagree that a chunk of the new condo development is generic or ridiculous (I'm looking at you, building with the hypodermic needle on top and/or the building with the green glowing stripe). But if your argument is that you liked the Reddy Ice building -- which anyone who ever sat at Club DeVille knows damned well was an eyesore at best and very likely gave half the hipsters in Austin ocular herpes -- then I have to question your sanity (and eyesight). And, if you want more parking options, you should be pro development. For example, the Austonian is replacing a flat dirt parking lot on 2nd and Congress with a building that will have a parking garage. Since there's allegedly retail space, etc in that building, there will also be more parking spaces available now. A dirt lot is not exactly the best way to stack more cars downtown, no matter how much you love the aesthetics of it.

ducknutz

Fri, 01 Aug 2008 10:43:56 -0600

Oh I see. Slagging on trailer "trash" is the way real cities transform into wonderful centers of cultural greatness. How inept of me and the rest of the longterm Austin natives. I actually liked the Reddy Ice building. Much more character than half the plastic looking condo developments around town these days. And I stand by my belief that Austin could use more parking options.

Waterlewd

Fri, 01 Aug 2008 10:28:31 -0600

Keep Austin Trailer Trash!! Austin needs to change and progress, and not by "Keeping Austin" anything. Cities that don't change and adapt will fail. I agree there should be a balance between property owner rights and historic preservation. But a trailer park, c'mon??? Austin could use more density to be a sustainable place with mass transit and protection of environmentally sensitive areas outside the city. Austin's population density is 2310.4 people/mile squared. That's horrible for a city, and in fact is below average suburbs in your oh-so-hated Dallas. (boo...siss...Dallas). Plano, Richardson, Arlington, Carrollton, and Garland all have higher population densities than Austin. Pathetic. BTW, You need to find a new Dr. Evil and whipping boy because Dallas is actually getting things right. They have a comprehensive land use plan called 'Forward Dallas' and are building two new rail lines to connect different population centers. All steps to provide a more sustainable city. I can say that Dallas is not confused in the fact that it's a city -- Austin needs to figure that out. www.austinurbanforum.com - Join to discuss issues about Austin. forum.dallasmetropolis.com - Join to discuss issued about Dallas.

cram

Fri, 01 Aug 2008 10:09:43 -0600

Yeah! I really really really hate how those developers downtown are leveling dusty parking lots and abandoned buildings. I mean, who didn't love the Reddy Ice building or that dirt parking lot on 2nd and Congress next to an empty boarded up dump?! Those are true symbols of real Austin! The least they could do is convert old warehouses (Brazos Lofts), old office spaces (Avenue Lofts, Brown Building, Brazos Place), hotels (Sabine), etc. But hey, let's ignore reality. That's cool too.

ducknutz

Fri, 01 Aug 2008 07:44:00 -0600

Seth nailed it. Austin is falling into the traps that Dallas and Houston succumbed to years ago. Keep Austin Wierd? Whatever. Keep Austin Austin is my new motto.

seth

Fri, 01 Aug 2008 06:27:59 -0600

At the center of Dallas, Mockingbird and Greenville Avenue, a beautiful example of art deco architecture used to stand as the Dr. Pepper headquarters. There had long been talk and plans of a light rail station adjacent to the empty building. Developers bought the property in the mid nineties, bulldozed it, then built condos. Would have been nice to retain the original structure and convert it to condos / lofts. But like Austin's developers, those Dallas greedheads are eager to cannibalize a sense of place for a profit today. Seth

mdahmus

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 21:59:15 -0600

ducknutz, Dallas and Houston are a lot more about sprawl than they are about urban development.

ducknutz

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 21:33:09 -0600

mdahmus, Dallas has a healthy hearty dose of condos all over the place. I'd say more condos does indeed make us more like Dallas... and Houston... and New York... and Los Angeles... and many other places that Austin has tried so hard to avoid. And I'd rather see 100 trees stay 100 trees. There's no need for more apartments. They're already converting those blessed empty condo towers downtown into apartments. Hasn't anyone seen the giant "now leasing" banner hanging downtown?

Grape Ape

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:05:56 -0600

I don't see an apartment complex getting financing in this market. A condo development would be much easier as they would sell out of those untis quickly prior breaking ground. As for Joel's comment about trees, I get what he's saying, but the truth is I'd rather see 100 trees go for density than I would see thousands and thousands go for a sprawl development.

Scottolini

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:00:31 -0600

Tampa Bay Bucs, 2012, Mr. T

LoudMouth

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:44:37 -0600

Damn, Nostradamus. Who's going to win the Super Bowl next year? When is Jesus coming back? Who shot JFK?

Scottolini

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:26:45 -0600

Also, although in the article you do clarify that this is an apartment complex, the title 'condomania' implies these would be condos. I do realize there are a lot of apartments being built in the Austin market, but I have little doubt this project will secure financing and proceed in the near term. This is a very desirable area, and with Austin's growth rate, I don't believe there will be a problem.

Scottolini

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:20:00 -0600

Thank you M1Ek! And you want to talk about losing trees? Sprawling out for hundreds of square miles will take out a lot more trees than redeveloping our inner city. Not too mention the cost of extending infrastrucure out into the countryside, or the cost of everyone having to commute 50 miles to get to work, both in fuel costs, as well as health costs to both yourself and the enviroment.

mdahmus

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:59:08 -0600

Suburban sprawl is Dallas. Urban development is Not Dallas. People who think building condos makes us more like Dallas generally have no clue what they're talking about.

Grape Ape

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:33:55 -0600

It all comes down to responsible growth and development. While land owners may be willing to sell their souls, the city should step in and make sure that develpoments meet certain standards of Austin and its culture. At no time in the future should we ever be like Dallas.

Joel Nihlean

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:05:00 -0600

I wish our town were more treeless...like Dallas.

Grape Ape

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 12:45:22 -0600

It will happen eventually regardless. It may be another developer, but it'll happen. It would be great if whoever develops it does include another restaurant though.

tim

Thu, 31 Jul 2008 12:34:12 -0600

they don't have financing yet. seems likely this won't happen.