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<title>Austinist: Darque Tan Owner Makes Two Astounding Discoveries</title>
<link>http://austinist.com/2008/05/02/darque_tan_owne.php</link>
<description>All comments for Darque Tan Owner Makes Two Astounding Discoveries</description>
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<copyright>2008 Mike Agresta</copyright>
<lastBuildDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:17:20 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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<managingEditor>magresta@gmail.com</managingEditor>
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<item>
<title>truecraig</title>
<link>http://austinist.com/2008/05/02/darque_tan_owne.php#comment-1390883</link>
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<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:28:16 -0600</pubDate>
<description>&lt;p&gt;Courts don&apos;t maintain compliance, and they don&apos;t repeal anything.  Those are the duties of other government branches.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<title>joshmiller602</title>
<link>http://austinist.com/2008/05/02/darque_tan_owne.php#comment-1390270</link>
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<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:24:42 -0600</pubDate>
<description>&lt;p&gt;QUOTE: &quot;...but once again, the American public proves to me just how dumb it is.&quot; - LoudMouth

Although a clever post, mocking &quot;scooby&apos;s&quot;, i would have to disagree. 

Firstly, she IS a busy body...she went out of her way to not only report this business, but to contact the owner, and then the media. If you actually read all of the emails sent back and forth, she didn&apos;t report it for the public health, it was a &quot;the law is the law&quot; argument, and her wanting to prove herself. The fact that he doesn&apos;t agree with the law gives him the RIGHT to challenge it, that&apos;s a right...Welcome to the US :) According to you, business owners should adhere to the law whether or not they agree with it right? You must be British :)

Looking at the actual content of the advertising, which you can find some of it online if you are outside of TX, it doesn&apos;t state any benefits, only that tanning produces Vitamin D, which i cannot see where that would be a violation of the code.

ALSO, why is there a law that prevents someone from stating the TRUTH? Tanning does produce Vitamin D...that is NOT in dispute by ANYONE (including doctors, dermatologists, or even this law student). 

Shouldn&apos;t these laws be focusing on lies, not truths??

Why are we limiting speech to companies? Because we are afraid of companies lying and swindling people in order to make a quick buck...i don&apos;t think that is the issue here, or is something that a wise company, that has been around for decades and is nationwide, would do just to make a quick buck. They are usually in it for the long haul and will need their reputation in order to continue to grow. The truth will always come out. 

But that is NOT the point with this story anyway, this is not about blocking companies from lying...tanning DOES produce Vitamin D, undisputably. Laws should not block speech by companies or individuals...especially if its the TRUTH. Sorry that&apos;s just the Libertarian in me, i&apos;m sure many democrats and republicans would disagree. If he doesn&apos;t like the law, he should...and should be empowered to, have it challenged. If the courts feel it is unjust, they will repeal it, if not...they will make sure he&apos;s in compliance.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
</item><item>
<title>LoudMouth</title>
<link>http://austinist.com/2008/05/02/darque_tan_owne.php#comment-1355116</link>
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<category>Comments</category>
<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 14:54:02 -0600</pubDate>
<description>&lt;p&gt;Imagine that... a full-of-hisself, busy-body 55-year-old perverted tanning salon owner. I don&apos;t necessarily agree with the law student&apos;s continued discussion with him when it looks like she&apos;s got a great case, but I disagree more with business owners that think they&apos;re above and beyond the law just because they don&apos;t like it.

I thought you&apos;d have to have more brains to run a business but once again, the American public proves to me just how dumb it is.
&lt;/p&gt;</description>
</item><item>
<title>Scooby</title>
<link>http://austinist.com/2008/05/02/darque_tan_owne.php#comment-1355017</link>
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<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 13:45:01 -0600</pubDate>
<description>&lt;p&gt;Imagine that... a full-of-herself, busy-body 2nd year law student.  I don&apos;t necessarily agree with the tanning salon tool&apos;s comparison of this silly law with great injustices (fugitive slave act, Nazis, etc.), but I disagree more with simplistic fools who think that tautologies (i.e., &quot;The law is the law!&quot;) are valid arguments.

I thought UT Law was a bit more selective than that.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
</item><item>
<title>hackerstorm7</title>
<link>http://austinist.com/2008/05/02/darque_tan_owne.php#comment-1354218</link>
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<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 10:42:07 -0600</pubDate>
<description>&lt;p&gt;<![CDATA[Here's the email thread that went back and forth between Emily and Darque Tan.

=================

From: Emily Prewett [mailto:***REMOVED--Editor***] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 3:02 PM
To: Robbie Segler
Subject: Re: Tanning Salon False Advertising

Dear Robbie -

Thanks again for the offer, but this point, I will have to respectfully decline, as I believe my complaint has made it to the appropriate people at the appropriate agencies.  I would like to clarify that I am not scared of the results; I actually take a multivitamin and calcium + D supplements on a daily basis, and I have a very healthy diet.  And don't worry - my father is in the health care profession - I hear plenty from my him about taking care of my health, especially during finals.  But my health is really not the issue here.  (Did you win your office bet?)  I just don't think this is necessary; I would rather go through appropriate, legitimate channels that have been designed to handle situations such as this.  

At this point, I believe we should just agree to disagree, and leave it at that.   You seem to really enjoy the debate, and I am sure we could continue having an extended philosophical discussion over email.  However, I am not certain we will get anywhere, and I simply do not have the time to devote to this.  I intended to send a simple complaint to your company; I was not expecting any response from you, aside from perhaps a confirmation that my complaint was received.  I did not send the complaint because I wished to debate the purpose of the statute, or whether or not it was appropriate; I just wanted to point out that I thought your advertisements were bad.  It seems that we differ on some fundamental points; and while I do not necessarily agree with them, you raise very interesting issues, and ones which a concerned legislature might be willing to listen to.  If you can make your argument to the law makers, and get them to agree with you, perhaps they will amend the statute.  Until then, the law is the law, and I believe you should abide by it.  

Thanks again for responding to my concerns; I appreciate the time and thought you put in to your responses.  I wish you well, and hope that you continue quickly on your recovery. 

Take care,
Emily

=========================================
On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 2:05 PM, Robbie Segler wrote:

Dear Emily (I hope I'm not being too presumptuous in moving to a first name basis) J

Thanks for your well wishes on my knee. I appreciate the cordiality of our correspondence.
 
The betting around the office was that you'd duck the test.

It occurred to me that recommending a doctor in Houston probably wasn't a good idea for a law student in Austin, especially in the middle of finals. I can, however, send a phlebotomist from our Insurance company to wherever you're at, and they can do this on the spot. It wouldn't take more than a few minutes. 

I was a student once and know that even the most studious need to take breaks. Five minutes is all I am asking. Forward me an address and I can have someone there within 24 hours. If I were your father, I'd caution you about neglecting your health, especially if you want to do well in your finals. J 

I can appreciate that you have bigger things on your mind right now but what about your fellow Texans? The ones you took time out of your schedule for, to pen your complaint and emails to me. I believe you even met with a campus reporter.

I am offering you the chance to shut my 'offensive' advertising down. I am offering you the chance to get what you want (without resorting to the power of government), and you tell me you're too busy….too busy to help your fellow man? Where is your altruistic fervor now?

The results of this test will be first hand evidence that you are an ironic unwitting victim in this issue. Perhaps this is another truth you are unwilling to face?

As you have clearly indicated your desire to not debate the science (time constraints and all J), I'll confine myself to trying to understand how a graduating law student can be so confused as to what constitutes a violation of rights… "communications [that] infringe upon the rights of others". What does this even mean?

Communication can't infringe or violate rights. Only coercion can. I challenge you to draft any sentence that could violate my rights. 

You believe these are  "appropriate regulations...[because you]… don't think that people can make proper informed choices when their information is coming from improper sources". 

Can you be serious? How can a self respecting soon-to-graduate law student say such a thing? What are they teaching you at UT? 

Do you really think people have a right to make proper informed choices? Examine this question carefully as it is the fundamental from which all of your errors proceed.

The right to life, liberty, and proper informed choices J 

It just doesn't follow. And what are "improper sources"? 

Improper content I can understand, but how do you reconcile your respect for the First Amendment with "improper sources". Who, in your mind, is allowed to speak freely?

Laws and government are necessary to protect proper rights- as in the right to be left free to act on your judgment, without violating any one else's right to act on their judgment. 

In this case, it means; the right for me make any claim I please (knowing that I can be sued for fraudulent claims that cause objective harm), and your right to dismiss or ignore any claim I make.

In your perverted sense of justice, it means; that I am not free to make any claim I like, but others are, based on the government's designation of who is approved to make claims. Similarly, in a dictatorship, citizens are likewise unable to make claims or speak out, and only government approved speech is allowed. Do you know the name they give to ordinary citizens who turn in other citizens for the offense of speaking out or 'making claims'? 

Emily, is this the kind of justice and world-view you advocate? 

The right to only hear from legislatively approved sources, is an aberration of the First Amendment. Who determines who is a proper source? In a free society it is the individual that decides who and what is proper, not the government.

The extent of your confusion with respect to rights is confounding. My only solace is that you still have a while to graduate, which is code for: you still have a lot to learn.

Forward me your address, get the test, and let's end this quickly, with dignity.

Best Regards,

Robbie

www.darquetan.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Emily Prewett [mailto:***REMOVED--Editor***] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 2:52 AM


To: Robbie Segler
Subject: Re: Tanning Salon False Advertising


Dear Mr. Segler,

First off, I am very sorry to hear about your knee surgery!  I hope you are well on your way to a speedy recovery, and back up and about in no time.  

Thank you again for the lengthy email response.  You are quite correct about the life of a law student--we spend ridiculous amounts of time reading.  As I am in the midst of finals, I do not have the time to respond thoroughly to your letter or to your proposal; I will be attempting to spend every waking hour prepping for exams.   

There are several points, however, that I would like to clarify in this brief email.  First, my reason for not providing you the numerous studies I spoke of was merely based on a time constraint.  It is not my position that the studies or the science don't matter, merely that it would be a waste of time to debate the science.  I believe in the science backing my position as much as you believe in the studies that you claim back yours.  Because I doubt we will agree upon this point, I did not wish to spend time debating this--I thought the focus should be on the content of your ads as related to the statute.  It is absolutely not my position that the law, if unjust, should be blindly followed.  Quite the contrary, actually.  But I believe that the current law is appropriate, because of the studies I spoke of (World Health Organization endorsed a study, numerous others are available through non-profit cancer research foundations and dermatological associations) and for other ethical considerations which I stated in my last email.  If you are opposed to the content of the statute, I am sure you will attempt to battle that out with the legislature.  

Secondly, the First Amendment is fundamental, and something that we should go great lengths to protect, but when communications infringe upon the rights of others, then in my opinion it may be appropriate for the government to step in.  As I said before, I do not believe that advertisements for your tanning business are an appropriate forum for health messages.  Because we disagree on the risks or benefits associated with this practice, I think we will undoubtedly disagree on whether or not the communications I have taken issue with are of the type that should be regulated.  Again, if you feel that this is an inappropriate regulation, and you wish to take your battle to the legislature, that is your right.  I do not believe it is an inappropriate regulation.  

I am not anti business, and I am not a zealot trying to keep the entire population from ever seeing the light of day.  But I don't think that people can make proper informed choices when their information is coming from improper sources.  

I would also like to note that I did attempt to reach you via telephone before contacting the AG and before sending you my original email.  I was unable to even reach a live operator when I called the customer service number listed on your website. I attempted to call several times during normal business hours, and I left at least one message, but my calls were never returned.  As your name, email address, and direct line are not listed on the website, I was unsure of how I could reach you personally. I was also unsure of whether you would even get the email that I sent to the customer service email address; I was hoping that with stronger language, the email would have a better chance of reaching to the appropriate person.  

Thank you again for emailing me.  As I previously mentioned, I am extremely busy with finals at the moment.  If you'd like to be in further contact, I will be available after the semester is complete.  Take care, and I hope you are feeling better soon -

Regards,
Emily

============================================
On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 11:22 AM, Robbie Segler wrote:

Dear Ms. Prewett,

My apologies for not having written back sooner- I had knee surgery last week and a little too much medication to reply sensibly J

I enjoyed reading your email and appreciate the time it must have taken you to write it. You seem quite passionate about this subject and the subject of law as it relates to tanning salons as well as business in general. I found all of it very revealing. 

I do understand that nothing I write to you—my "long detailed diatribe" as you called it, will affect or alter our position with the State, so please don't think my motives so shallow. I have been battling tanning legislation since the early 1990's and my battles with the State will continue long after we stop emailing each other.

This will be an even longer 'diatribe' as I've had a few days and a lot of Vicodin to think about it. As a law student you should be used to long papers. This will be no exception as I wish to properly address some important philosophic errors I believe you have made, as exhibited by your actions and in your email to me. But if you can labor all the way through this 'diatribe', a surprise proposal awaits.

Before delving into these philosophic issues, I am happy to provide you with the context behind the airing of these commercials. 

In large part, our current positioning of Vitamin D takes its lead from a battle fought recently in Canada. A very good friend of mine, Doug McNabb, owns the largest tanning franchise in Canada- Fabutan. His 3 year ordeal began when Canada Health took him to task regarding blatant statements he was making about the benefits of tanning and Vitamin D. 

The result, settled late in 2006, was that he was never fined, but instead, Canadian law was amended to allow tanning salons to state that UVB from tanning beds produces vitamin D. Interestingly, tanning salons are not permitted to advertise the benefits of Vitamin D—only that tanning beds produce it….sound familiar?

I expect, in the not to distant future, that this battle will occur in the US Indoor Tanning Industry, and I have no intention of shying away from it when it does. On many fronts, this battle has already begun. 

I pride myself, and Darque Tan, on being major contributors to the Sun Scam campaign that was launched in March of this year. Here is a sample of some of the media it created. 

http://www.sunlightscam.com/downloads/TanningHighlights.wmv 

You can plainly see that the Indoor Tanning Industry is not just defending itself against anti-tanning tactics, but rather, drawing attention to the dangers of the sun-scare message—a message that you have absorbed hook, line and sinker and one that I will address shortly.

Another initiative, which I help fund and organize, is the Vitamin D Foundation's "D-feat Breast Cancer" campaign being launched in May. 

'D-Feat Breast Cancer' drive created to support vitamin D cancer ...

"Perhaps I am wrong when I assume that you are a man on a mission; you want to change people's minds about tanning." 

You are a very perceptive Ms Prewett. I am a man on a mission, and you seem to be a woman on a mission.

In the course of fulfilling my mission, I have no intention of running afoul of the law. As evidenced above, I seek to advance my mission legally with Industry media campaigns and non-profit research vehicles, like the Vitamin D Foundation.

Another important facet of my mission is our advertising. I have already stated that I believe our advertising meets the requirements of Texas law. 

What is "conveyed" to you in our advertising is the unfortunate result of the one-sided message you have uncritically absorbed from beauty magazines, pharmaceutical companies, and your claim that you " have seen the numerous studies linking such exposure to skin cancer, [and] have heard from my dermatologist about the dangers and health risks associated with the exposure".

You clearly state numerous times that "tanning is not healthy". I would love to see the studies you have "seen". Please fell free to forward them. In my email to you I cited specific studies that showed the opposite correlation and a statistic regarding the totality of all the studies ever done. Again, 18 of the 22 studies ever done on this topic, showed no connection at all between indoor tanning and melanoma.

This is a fact you don't want to hear. 

But this is science and accordingly, is open to objective evaluation. Why do you think we could never agree on this? This is not an issue of opinion or preference. Tanning is either healthy or it isn't. It either enhances human health or it doesn't. The risks either outweigh the benefits, or they don't. 

What studies have you really seen? How far have you really investigated this link? Isn't it possible that there is some information you may have overlooked, starting with the 22 studies ever done on this topic? I would be happy to send you further studies if you wish to investigate this first hand.

Others, who have a different view of tanning, may see a different message "conveyed" in our commercials. 

What is conveyed to you, and others, is not nearly as important (from a legal (and moral) point of view) as what is actually said. 

We are not claiming "that using a tanning device is safe or free from risk or that using a tanning device will result in medical or health benefits." 

We are simply stating that tanning produces Vitamin D. Specifically, our ads equate 4,000 IU's of Vitamin D in a tanning bed with its equivalent in milk and sardines.

Is 4,000 IU's of Vitamin D a "medical or health benefit"? We don't say. Some may argue it is, others may argue it isn't, but that is not the point of the commercial…our point is simple equivalencies.

Again, the purpose of my email to you is not to defend or prove these commercials are legal. I believe they are and, should any governmental agency take issue with our ads, I will cooperate in any way I can. I am confident that any investigation would result favorably for Darque Tan.

My motivation for emailing you is a philosophic one.

For now, I am willing to table my arguments in favor of tanning, for what should be a more important issue to you—the law.

For brief moments in your email, you try to conceal your anti-tanning zealotry with your 'reverent respect' for the law. 

"It would not even matter whether or not you could prove to me that tanning is, in fact, healthy, …  What really matters is the law… Because of this message, and regardless of its truth or falsity … your ads violate Texas law."

You state clearly and repeatedly that it is not the truth of this matter that concerns you, only the fact that you believe it violates the law.

But then you pay lip service to your altruistically alleged motive—"I am merely a concerned citizen trying to make sure that people in this state are healthy", yet this can hardly be true, can it?

You don't even want to know if tanning is healthy or not. In fact, at one point you even state that it is!

 "I understand your concern, as it has been scientifically proven, that tanning does in fact produce Vitamin D…  I understand the nature of these statements, as well as the health benefits associated with Vitamin D."

What you object to is not the message, but the messenger!

 "… people who have a business to run and money to make will often not tell people the whole truth.  Instead, they will tell a "truth" which is favorable to the business". Interestingly, you place "truth" in scare quotations.

Businessmen only tell half-truths, right? Money is the root of all evil. That's why we need legislation—to use the power of government to silence entrepreneurs from making claims about their products.

I guess you feel that the uneducated masses are unable to sift through claims and act on their own judgment. They need an agency like the government to tell them what is safe and what isn't. And we all need watchdogs like you to make sure we fall in line with the governments bidding.

I can hear it now… "if you have a problem with the fact that you are not allowed to pass such information on to potential customers in an advertisement, I suggest you talk to the legislature about that… maybe you can lobby a sympathetic legislature to change the statute so as to allow your currently illegal advertisements".

After all, the law is the law.

As an emerging law student, I wonder what motivated you to choose Law as your profession. One might hope that it was for the noblest of reasons- your passion for justice and your desire to live in a civilized society. Without the rule of law, no such society is possible.

&lt;]]>&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<title>mdahmus</title>
<link>http://austinist.com/2008/05/02/darque_tan_owne.php#comment-1354008</link>
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<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 17:23:55 -0600</pubDate>
<description>&lt;p&gt;The distinction appears to be that UV may cause non-melanoma skin cancers, which are a comparatively Small Deal, but they actually don&apos;t cause and may even help to prevent melanoma and other cancers. We were, after all, evolved to get a lot more sun than some sunophobes get these days.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<title>Joel Nihlean</title>
<link>http://austinist.com/2008/05/02/darque_tan_owne.php#comment-1353908</link>
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<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 15:43:55 -0600</pubDate>
<description>&lt;p&gt;According to the American Cancer Society: 

&quot;Many people believe the UV rays of tanning beds are harmless. This is not true. Tanning lamps give out UVA and frequently UVB rays as well. Both UVA and UVB rays can cause serious long-term skin damage, and both contribute to skin cancer. Because of these dangers, many health experts advise people to avoid sunlamps and tanning beds.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<title>mdahmus</title>
<link>http://austinist.com/2008/05/02/darque_tan_owne.php#comment-1353844</link>
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<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 15:01:16 -0600</pubDate>
<description>&lt;p&gt;Laura, your blood shouldn&apos;t be boiling quite so much - there is some evidence percolating now that skin cancer isn&apos;t quite as cut and dried as people thought, since some folks with nearly zero sun exposure are still getting melanomas.

http://thehealthyskeptic.org/throw-away-the-sunscreen/

That article&apos;s tone&apos;s a bit much for me, but it does refer to some good studies. I&apos;ve also read something recently that asserts that the rise in detected melanomas is entirely attributable to the fact that we screen so much for it now whereas we didn&apos;t before.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<title>Laura D</title>
<link>http://austinist.com/2008/05/02/darque_tan_owne.php#comment-1353753</link>
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<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 13:50:00 -0600</pubDate>
<description>&lt;p&gt;I was just recently diagnosed with melanoma on my left thigh...this article gets my blood boiling.  I got burned many times as a kid in the sun, so to think that people actually put themselves in harms way for the sake of appearances makes me wonder where their head it at.  The first thing my dermatologist asked me was my history of sun exposure/burns.  Melanoma (and other skin cancers) are caused by mutated and damaged DNA in melanocyte cells, which can only be done by UVB band exposure, as it penetrates all layers of the skin.  There is no other way to get UVA/UVB exposure except through the sun...or tanning beds.  This company should perhaps try to think about the public health message they are sending.  Oh yea, and damaged skin ages faster.  &lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<title>M_Twilson</title>
<link>http://austinist.com/2008/05/02/darque_tan_owne.php#comment-1353695</link>
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<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 13:17:45 -0600</pubDate>
<description>&lt;p&gt;There&apos;s actually not really much to comment about, its obvious the owner of darque tan is a genius.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<title>popo</title>
<link>http://austinist.com/2008/05/02/darque_tan_owne.php#comment-1353653</link>
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<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 12:49:22 -0600</pubDate>
<description>&lt;p&gt;This just in: Beer makes you skinny!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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