Austinist: Austinist Show Preview: Secret Show #7

SmugglersDeadly

Wed, 02 Apr 2008 19:22:54 -0600

ill break you.

reynard

Wed, 02 Apr 2008 01:39:58 -0600

Listen, I'd like to let this go, but I have to say, The people involved with the show have the least interest in seeming too outspoken - whereas I, for instance, don't care what anyone thinks - so that's not a good ruler for objectivity by any means, and I also don't think any of my comments were "out of hand."

austinpepper

Fri, 28 Mar 2008 15:25:29 -0600

So I went to this last secret show. I've lived in austin for 16 years and have been to 100s of shows. A boy took me for our first date and I told him it had to be one of the coolest thing I've ever done in austin. I used to live by there and I never even knew about that little Island. I also checked on my myspace bulletins and austinist to see if there was any mention of the show and didn't find anything. I've never heard of Red Hunter or his music and could give a shit about him now. The secret element for me was that I assumed we didn't get a permit to have it on that island and we were in a secret spot I had never even known about. Myspace has their own nation wide secret shows too so why isn't someone pissed about that? I had a great time! Best first date ever. Thanks you secret show folks. Also the music was awesome, but even if the band sucked it was an adventure already. I also don't know how to swim so I was kinda scared to take those rickety boats out there.

rws0006

Fri, 28 Mar 2008 14:30:48 -0600

I'll be in high school next year.

danjo

Fri, 28 Mar 2008 13:13:52 -0600

yamcheeo, no one is forcing you to come read this. Although I agree with you in many ways and think this conversation has pretty much covered all the bases by now, your statement is akin to people watching "wife swap" every week, while repeating during commercial breaks that they should take this trash off the air. If you look through the comments on here, pretty much everyone that says they are directly involved with the planning of the secret show has handled the situation with patience and rationality. It's those not involved that are getting out of hand. And about Red. I agree with Holden, Red is being a douchebag here. I still like his music, but I'll admit that he's being a douchebag.

sitstageleft

Fri, 28 Mar 2008 12:48:53 -0600

dude, Holden, please tell me you are a high schooler or some shit, because that last post was re-donk-ulous

yamcheeo

Fri, 28 Mar 2008 12:43:52 -0600

I'll here here to the last little part of that comment Holden. We're all spoiled hipsters with too much time on our hands to be sure. Obviously this has provoked something in us to continue commenting, all hoping to get the last word or something. Butter Woman: No one is claiming that Red started the artform of performing in public. Red isn't, his fans aren't. All the comments that are making light of Red think he's 'the creator' are exaggerating to make a sting but I think missing the point. Though to be fair, this is a discussion that's well in need of more laughing at itself than being volatile. The SS is a group of people who have created something for their own enjoyment, and the enjoyment of those who partake, wonderful. However the lack of agreement in how to handle this issue is sort of distressing. Some are being calm and unfazed by a horribly reactant group of comments from Red. Others are acting out and taking it to the battle field, perhaps we are all just curious and opinionated bystanders at this point. Red has chosen to stop commenting here and I will commend that as a wise move, though his earlier comments perhaps were not. I strongly urge members of the SS to handle the rest of this privately. Hate comments on myspace sites just doesn't look positive for any musician no matter who you're pulling for. At this point as a fan of both sides I feel in no hurry to go to the shows that SS or Red will put on in the future as there is starting to be a negative and unresolved aura. I am sure there are few who may be affected as severely as this but it's worth looking at. Who cares what the outcome is as long as it doesn't have to take place in front of people. It would seem a shame to let our angry comments fuel this strange thing anymore. It seems like to allow it to continue just cheapens this and makes it seem like another grab for press or something which I would like to think is not the case. I mean, this is supposed to just be a short little article documenting the whereabouts and neatness of ashow and it has turned into...well this. Please, someone from SS, or RED or dude who wrote this article, PLEASE put a stop to this. I don't want the last word, but I would like someone to END THIS.

Holden Caulfield

Fri, 28 Mar 2008 11:51:46 -0600

Hey, I wrote the inflamed comment before, and I thought I'd respond again to be more open and to clarify my intent. First of all, I'm not one of the creators of the Secret Show, but I am a good friend with several of them, I've witnessed its inception, and have played a coupe of the shows myself. I know these people, and I know their motivation is completely sincere. There is no sense of ripping someone off or being "phonies" as Red repeatedly and childishly calls them. I was there when they began playing outside spontaneously. It wasn't even planned at first. Soon, people wanted to know where they were going to play so that they could watch. Then they started inviting other bands. It is something which evolved organically to become what it is today. The notion that it was a concerted premeditated plan to steal ideas from Red, that they were all sitting around with his albums saying "how can we grab onto the coattails of this winner?", is utterly absurd. Only a shallow narcissistic mind would come to that conclusion. Plus, Red is a HUGE douche bag. I can't believe I'm the only one saying it. He's obviously a very douchey douche bag. It's healthy to say. Please, I encourage you to say it aloud as you read this: Red is a very very douchey douchey douche bag. It feels good doesn't it? That tingle tells you it's working! If you review the posts throughout this little comment war, you'll see the Secret Show people are consistently showing extreme patience. They've laid out their case very rationally and calmly. He and his friends have been belligerent and juvenile. Yes, I'm sinking to their level. No one has called them out for being extremely petty and immature. Why is that? Is everyone trying not to offend him because he's an emotional artist and should feel his feelings? F that! He's being a baby. He's not some special gem. He's a wanna-be pop star, just like half the people in this city. There's nothing special or unique about that. The fact is that the Secret Show is only superficially similar to anything Red has done. The individuals involved were doing this kind of thing independently before they even knew each other, well before douchey McDouche Bag ever did anything like this. Besides, who cares... can everybody stop and think about it for a second. Who f-ing cares? This is such a petty argument. Put reason and reality aside for a moment and pretend that they totally ripped him off on purpose. Let's pretend as the douche is suggesting that that they directly stole the idea of doing this kind of show from him. Who cares? This is such a spoiled Austin hipster thing to be upset about. We are all so lucky to live in this day and age and civilization, where we don't have to worry about where food is coming from or disease. Do you realize that this is the first time in human history that average people can spend their lives worrying about anything above the necessities of life, and this is how you spend that great gift? What a waste.

Butter Woman

Fri, 28 Mar 2008 10:35:06 -0600

Dear Fans of Red, Are you claiming that Red invented the artform of performing in public places without advance notification of time/date/place? Once could argue that this artform has been around since the dawn of humankind; certainly since the dawn of live performances. The most notable example from modern times is The Beatles' performance on the roof of Apple in January of 1969. Maybe it's the surviving members of The Beatles who should be riled up about the copycats.

Little Who

Fri, 28 Mar 2008 09:20:42 -0600

It's not so much anger as a hope that everyone will put down the ego's, sheath the vanity, and get back to living their lives, and creating whatever they want to, and not giving a damn for being called any amount of negative adjectives for what they do. I just so happen to be perverse and get a thrill of watching adults disintegrate into petty squabbling over a subject that in actuality has as much importance as who was the first to own that new pair of Nikes. This is a part of a larger argument to me, art is not religious, it's not spiritual, an artist is no different from the guy who performs building maintenance or cleans the toilet, excepting one tends to fulfill some lack of security on the individuals part for the needless expose before an audience. Some humility on Reds part would have gone greatly towards averting this whole little mock flame war. When dealing with your fellow man checking your ego at the door is often a good policy, had Red approached this as an actual dialogue and not an excuse to reaffirm some sense of being a big fish in a small pond, he probably would've realized everybody was just trying to have some fun and play some music and happened to find some of the same or very similar locales he had once used to do this at. But coincidence was not an option to him, and if this "blog" is gone through again the secret show people (which I am not one of beyond casual acquaintance to some of those involved) can be seen to not claim any originality, have genuinely had some of the same ideas completely and independently apart from any knowledge of Reds exploits. But alas, the truth must give way to the shallow minded, and now petty insults have been involved, so as I stated before, whitey tighties, a sandbox, the hurling of sand and loud proclamations of "Mine" seems to me the only real solution to this. I'll continue to live my life and enjoy what experiences I have, content with the knowledge that countless people have gone through the same sort of things, and I will "secretly" love people for what we have mutually shared through being alive, write about it, and feel like it means something, because it does to me at the very least.

danjo

Fri, 28 Mar 2008 08:45:37 -0600

I don't think that anger is the right thing for either side of this issue. I think Red has a right to discuss his side of the argument with passion and ferver. The problem seems to be that Red didn't just state his views, he personally attacked the creators of the secret show and made accusations which he has no proof of. When you personally attack someone, you have to realize that they might get pissed. I think the SS people are handling themselves pretty well on here. It's their supporters that seem to be getting a little angry with Red. That may not be a good thing, but I think it's warranted. Red needs to realize that although he did this really cool and interesting thing several years ago, that doesn't mean that no one can ever do something like that again. He wasn't the first to do shows like this. How can you honestly explore the things you love if you are worrying about hurting the feelings of some guy that did a similar thing 3 years ago? Art can go nowhere if everyone is accusing everyone else of being derivative.

yamcheeo

Fri, 28 Mar 2008 05:56:40 -0600

How come it's bad for Red to speak passionately about how he feels but someone like Holden Caulfield can go on a bashing rampage and it's the right thing? I mean, it's beyond any point how aggressive people are acting. Little Who, Holden Caulfield, Does it bode well for anybody to be continuing to provoke such negative sentiments?

SmugglersDeadly

Fri, 28 Mar 2008 05:24:08 -0600

youre the bullshit. weed through yourself.

reynard

Fri, 28 Mar 2008 04:18:35 -0600

I actually have a show planned in May, which is to be at a downtown bar in promotion of my zine, none of which are "secret," nor contrive to be. And, in fact, I do judge books by their cover. There are a lot of books; it's a good way to weed through the bull shit.

Little Who

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 23:34:39 -0600

Oh by the way, a little enlightenment, who the Hell is Red Hunter anyway? Beyond being the creator of everything that is cool, holy, altruistic, organic, sacred, and being big enough (or fortunate) enough to buy himself a plane ticket to Europe to do whatever it is that he does that is really original. I'm just curious. An artist or individual is the sum of their experiences, two seemingly unrelated entities can, and will, derive the same conclusions from similar sensory and environmental input. When I fall in love with someone is this invalidated by some previous individuals experience with the same person? This is an example to two people, or groups, by happenstance, coming to the same epiphany, Acoustic music = mobility = mobility equals access to interesting venues = fuck it, let's play wherever the hell we want. However I still believe, that if someone must have ownership to concepts and ideas, which are intangible and will strike wherever they will, the only solution is for us all to don our underpants on our heads, get in the sandbox and have it out like civilized five year olds.

Little Who

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 23:05:44 -0600

Well after reading all that *I* need a hug. Here is my juvenile solution to the problem. NOT SO SECRET EVENT! I will be creatively rearranging any volunteers faces at the swing set after school tomorrow. However only members "Of the Order of Pretentious Vain Puerile Members Only Club" are invited, (which by the way includes anyone). I'm thinking I'll be going for a post cubist look. Screw the Austin happy vibe! Let's just have a bar brawl! Even better yet, to make it more organic and sacred, we should divide into camps, start churches and have a holy war, since this is obviously a dispute about who found the one true God first, thats it, I'm having a show at a cesspool! It's my commentary on what people can do to someone's creative process. Oh by the way, writing songs about love is really unoriginal, that other guy in that other country, did it like two millennia ago.

Holden Caulfield

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:40:44 -0600

Don't you phonies with the Secret Show understand? Red is literally holy. Listen to the language: "Red has righteous anger", " A curse on you for trespassing on sacred ground", "Something in my blood..." He's got magic blood! This is bigger than you realize, you phonies with the Secret Show. First of all, you are doing the shows all wrong. Your shows are inclusive, bringing total strangers together. Anybody can come and feel welcomed. You have lots of different bands play, even people you don't know, just because they play great music. That's absurd! No no no. Only your friends' bands should play, only the top echelon of friend should be invited, and the shows should always always feature YOU! This is crucial. How else do you expect to build momentum for your completely unique and original pop music band project? I've never even heard of Prokofiev! I can actually sort of understand your twisted logic if I try, you phony phonies with the Secret Phony Show. Sure, Blue wasn't the first to put on free clandestine nocturnal concerts. Sure, He is only one of many musicians to have played these locations. Sure, it's been years since He was doing this. Sure, the only similarity between you and Yellow is your choice of venue which is a completely non-substantive musical comparison. Sure, most of you had never even heard of Him before today... but He's a big deal. He's really really big deal. I can't emphasize this enough. It's important that you understand that He's a really really really really big deal and a very special boy with very precious and very special ideas in His blessed little head... I mean seriously people, He's going to Europe... EUROPE!! Ever heard of it? I don't care if many of you phonies have also toured the US, Europe, Asia, etc, and had a variety of successful projects across artistic disciplines. Are you leaving for one tomorrow? I didn't think so. The proximity of a thing in time increases it's value... unless of course that thing is a concert you did three years ago and you're the Son of God. That's always sacred. Phony.

zoe nicol

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:34:24 -0600

oh Smuggler, you sound like you need a hug.

SmugglersDeadly

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 19:36:32 -0600

ill break you.

danjo

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:31:33 -0600

Well, reynard. You can't please everyone. It seems the secret show folks have that base covered as well though. They said in one of their posts that if you don't like the way they are doing it, then do one yourself and do it how you want to do it. They do their shows how they want to do them. If you don't like it, make your own. Call it "Lizard Licker and the Unlimited Sky Blue Crayons" if you want. That's like saying you can't get into a band because of their name. I don't particularly like the band name "The Lounge Lizards," (not to be confused with "the austin lounge lizards"), but if you want to hear some pretty cool experimental jazz, then listen to they're album "The Queen of all Ears." I hated their name and wasn't going to check them out, but found out that they are big buddies with Tom Waits, so I gave them a listen. Good stuff. Don't judge a book by its cover. I'm sure you've heard that before. It applies here, although I think the cover is fine.

reynard

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:04:38 -0600

I just think it's a bad name. Even when it was a real secret - had I been part of it - I would have objected. I say, Put some words together that don't merely describe the event itself; that's the name. Or don't name it at all; have a show with some bands at a place, and tell some people.

danjo

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:00:26 -0600

Hey, guess what. I like the Secret Show. AND I like Red Hunter. It seems to me that the Secret Show people like him as well. But they mostly seem to like doing things in a non-conventional way. It just so happens that Red also likes doing things in a non-conventional way. I would say that it sounds like they have a lot in common, but I think where they differ is that Red seems to want credit (which they have given him, I read the article on austinsound.net from a few months ago and he is mentioned, check it out). I think where the problem lies is that he apparently wants ALL the credit. Which they do not give him. They talk about numerous things have happened or that are happening in Austin and around the world being orchestrated by like-minded individuals, including Red Hunter. If you go to the freakin' show and stop commenting from your couch, then you'll see, like I did, that nothing about this has a ring of "trying to get famous" or "trying to rip someone off." Everyone that I met there was very genuine and welcoming and the environment was very organic and beautiful. I'm sure Red's shows were beautiful as well. Can't they both be beautiful? Like someone said earlier, does one have to cancel the other out? This is just my opinion, but people saying that the secret shows should stop because more people are coming is the same kind of bullshit hipster mindset that says a band is no longer cool once they become more popular. I know it's certainly not always the case, but sometimes, things get buzz for a reason. Because they are pretty damn cool. Also, to say that Red held his shows sacred and that the Secret Show folks are just trying to be cool is dumb I think. I'm sure they both think their shows are cool, and I'm sure they both hold them sacred. Let's not question the intentions of people we don't know.

zoe nicol

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:50:25 -0600

Just a little perspective: isn’t it amazing that in a culture so focused on financial compensation that a group of people get together every single month and spend their time and resources, not to mention risk the ire of the police, so both friends and strangers can listen to music for free? So that any person of any age can enjoy a candle lit public space and absorb a variety of acoustic bands? Just take a moment to mull that over. The second is that Secret Shows are based on a simple concept of community and sharing. All the talk of “MINE! MINE! MINE!” smacks of spoiled children with a seriously misplaced sense of entitlement. Discrete meetings in public spaces with a smallish network of communications: not an original or “sacred” object. Railing against those who organize these events is akin to crying out for legislation to burn “Members Only” jackets. This entire business about Peter and the Wolf/Secret Wolf is amusing in a terribly sad way. I don’t recall ever seeing any Prokofiev fans waging holy war because Red shares a name with the 72-year old piece of classical music. Perhaps while Hunter is in Europe he can find his way to the composer’s grave in Moscow and give it a good kick. I tease because at moments like this, moments where people are choosing to be destructive towards others, one can either laugh at the absurdity or cry at the divisive, wholly short-sited spite. Finally, before any other posts are added speaking to the motivation of the organizers of Secret Shows, I suggest actually talking to them. A few months ago I emailed them, curious about the show, why they were doing it, and what their intentions were for the future. And although none of them knew me, they were more than happy to talk to me and more than gracious and candid during our meeting. I don’t know any of them well enough to say that we’re friends; I am not a musician so it’s not like I’m going to play one of their shows; but I can say that they’re an incredible group of people who work hard and are offering something positive to the Austin community. The only people who are being "stolen from" are those who have yet to see how great Secret Shows are and may not have the chance if the organizers buckle under all this petulance and animosity. Finally, to the organizers I can only say, "thank you; you're doing an amazing and wonderful thing. Keep it up. Maybe once people see what's really going on they'll come around."

yamcheeo

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:49:10 -0600

It's a powerful thing to create an experience for your friends and yourself that is fun and different etc. Whether the idea had been done before or not obviously Red was in Austin before the SS and did the island shows as something that was sacred and important to him. The SS and it's friends have also found a kind of performance that is inspiring and important to them and were not around for Red's previous endeavors so didn't know that they were stepping on toes. It seems unnecessary to convince anybody that these shows have meant a lot to the people involved. Perhaps we can acknowledge the feelings expressed as defensive retorts because both SS and Red are passionate about their projects. It would be best for us as fans and supporters of either troop or both to stay level headed and see the bigger picture that those involved are too clouded by feelings to see. This situation ultimately doesn't effect their music or the shows. The people who are suddenly chiming in that they saw some show or another and it was bad as though stooping to that is helpful and not just a meaningless dig seems, well, frankly not important. As people who support artists, musicians, we can support these parties through this controversy instead of adding fuel to the fire.

rws0006

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:26:37 -0600

Phew this was much funner than working today! Now I have to go home, and I don't have a computer there. Red....in response to your myspace message that I'm blocked from responding to, yes I see what you're saying, though I think the things I said are more like insinuations than accusations, as opposed to your false accusations of people ripping you off. And man, it's easy to make insinuations when you're calling people names and going off how you're going to leave us "bums" in the dust. Nonetheless, I take the insinuations back since I shouldn't have jumped to conclusions like you did. I don't know anything about you, but I will defend my friends from slanderous accusations.

LoudMouth

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:09:05 -0600

I don't know Red Hunter but if he wants to complain about something he should feel free to do so even if whiney babies try to shut him up.

SmugglersDeadly

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:05:41 -0600

let it out man.

SmugglersDeadly

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:05:30 -0600

loudmouth, its SMUGGLERS, first off. SmugglersDeadly. also: i think you are RED. you are, arent you?

LoudMouth

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:49:45 -0600

ridiculous, I guess that depends on whether the Secret Show people can keep their shit original or if they're going to continue the play by play of Red's shows which I never had the pleasure of attending myself.

jaffie

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:48:56 -0600

"marketing tactics"? We are doing this for our enjoyment and for anyone else that wants to hear interesting music in an interesting setting. I will state once again, that we are not the only ones doing this, not even in this city. We have been to many of these other events and met some amazing people. We went to a movie shown in the storm drains and told the people about what we were doing and that we'd like to do a show down there sometime. They were thrilled that other people shared their vision and even helped us organize the storm drain show. This is a group effort of 25 or so musicians, painters, performance artists, writers, travelers, instrument builders, gardeners, punks, and film-makers. There is no money involved, and our identity is kept secret for the sake of it not being about us. We are doing this because we love it and we've been doing it in other cities our whole lives. To come here and be accused of totally ripping someone off is annoying. I understand that Red Hunter did some similar shows. Upon researching them, they seem really cool. Kudos to you Red for being an interesting part of the Austin music scene. You have done something very cool. But you probably weren't the first to play a guitar for people on that island, and we probably won't be the last. Next, we advertise on myspace because it's a valid way of communicating quickly with your friends. Other than that, everything is word of mouth. What the individual bands do to get the word out is beyond our control.

LoudMouth

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:48:26 -0600

The difference between Red and Snugglers is that Red has rightous anger and Snuggle just sounds like a big fat crybaby. And I don't know Red. I don't know the SS. I don't know Snuggle. I just know I don't want to be around Snuggle when he's mad and breaking shit.

sarahdippity

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:47:33 -0600

Good day, dear and concerned Austinist readers! What a provocative argument we've seemed to become engaged in! This is quite exciting, as I lead somewhat of a mundane life. Most unfortunately, I must admit to having missed the last two secret shows as my attention has been forcibly directed towards my miserably floundering import/export business (effing Bush administration... *cough*), but this, this bloggety argument, befuddles me beyond Britney Spears' brain on drugs. It may be worth mentioning that I am not a musician... nor am I involved in planning the secret shows, but I've been privileged in finding some of these fantastical, creative spirits since my arrival in Austin nearly a year and a half ago now, and I'd rather ask Red a few questions over spending time defending their honor when it is something that no one (even the likes of Red Hunter) can take away: Q: Red, please explain to me me, if you can, why you feel "The Secret Show" was a concept that was stolen from you. Musical gatherings (some "secret"ive in nature) have been held since ancient times. You have apparently orchestrated similar shows throughout the area in days of yore, and perhaps this is why I am so confused at your angst and arousal. (As somewhat of an *artist*-- and I use that term loosely in self-description-- I am continually humbled and honored when others are able to find inspiration in something I've created or achieved.) Where does your issue lie, Red? Q: Why is it that you feel as if your territory has been "trespassed" upon? The whole island location hooplah brings to mind one of my favorite "Braveheart" discourses: Hamish: "Your island"?.... Stephen: Yeah. It's mine. Hamish: You're a madman. Stephen: [Stephen nods and starts laughing. Hamish laughs and nods himself] Do you see that island as being YOUR island, Red?? Q: Why do you make the assumption that those who orchestrate, perform at, and/or attend the Secret Show(s) don't find a sense of the sacred as you did with your musical ventures? I avow to you that I find these experiences sacred, eye-opening, spirit-shaking, rapturous, mystical... etc. Q: Why did you discontinue your shows after more and more people began hearing of and attending them? Was the Cool Kids Club suddenly allowing too many of the common riff-raff into the circle? I won't assume that, Red, because I'd rather assume you're a bigger chap than that... (and because we've all been to elementary school and know what happens when we assume things... *arches eyebrows*) Lastly, a couple of comments from this peanut in the gallery: ~ I am continually inspired by the delightful souls that take part in the Secret Shows and I am excitedly looking forward to the next. ~ I think it's wonderful that these artists are willing to perform in exciting and intimate places for those willing to seek adventure with them. ~ Jabbing at people who are able to conceptualize advanced ideas such as synchronicity is just... well... poppycock. And by the way, LoudMouth, I really like your hat.

Adam S

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:43:30 -0600

well put, ridiculous. and thank you for bringing the word "uniquity" to my attention. How have I never heard it before? I don't know.

ridiculous

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:39:26 -0600

Seems like people are upset because the "secret" shows are similar to shows that used to be held...outdoor locations, smallish groups, etc. Seems like people are also upset because the "secret" shows are different from the shows that used to be held...not so secret, receiving publicity, etc. Need the two events be mutually exclusive? Can't Red have had a great thing at one time and the SS people have a great thing too? Does one have to cancel the other out? Since there are obvious differences, why not just appreciate them both for what they were/are? I am certain that all hearts are in the right place...no ill will or "rip off" intended. It sounds like Red got his feelings hurt and that's too bad. I recognize the uniquity of each musical series and I appreciate both for what they were/are. Thank you Red and thank you SS people!

SmugglersDeadly

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:39:12 -0600

yeah, i also think its great that red hunter is mad. let it out man. let that rage bring you to tears. end up shaking in the airplane bathroom, weeping with anger. thats how important this is. i hope it brings you to violence. break some shit man. this secret show is totally ripping you off. its like verbatum. i mean, you were the first person ever to hold shows in secret locations around town. this is your baby, and you HAVE to defend it! its like theyre trying to hurt your feelings. i dont even think they want anykind of fame for themselves, i think they just wanna bring you down man. its a fucking conspiracy. i mean look at how theyre doing it all. its such a blatant and pointed offense. to hell with the idea. to hell with the sacredness of the shows you put on. thats not what theyre about. theyre after you. they want to be you.

josebear

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:16:05 -0600

Butter Woman, I couldn't disagree with you more, but you're helping to crystallize my point. The Secret Show aesthetic is all about cool, while Red and his friends were doing their shows because it was something they held sacred. To put it another way, if you're truly sincere about something then 'cool' never enters into the equation. And rws0006, I never said you ripped off Red. I asked the question because I honestly didn't know. (For the record, I don't know any of the people involved in this debate. These are just my opinions.)

Butter Woman

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:03:04 -0600

So here's a question: why so angry about the non-secret-ness of the show? Why not just say: "O.K., this show is no longer 'secret'--as I've defined it. And I don't go to non-secret shows."

suckit4real

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:00:01 -0600

suck it.

Butter Woman

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:57:43 -0600

This debate summarizes the age-old dilemma of the ultra cool: How can I treasure something enjoyed by the general populace? I'm not a common American person; I'm a cool, in-the-know hipster who has inside information on everything I do. I would never go to a secret show that is advertised, or resembles anything anyone else on the planet has ever thought of. That is why I am a better human being than everyone else. feh

LoudMouth

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:53:39 -0600

Yeah, they didn't rip off Red Hunter just like I'm not ripping off Mo Pair, Some Say Leland, The Blue Hit and Infinite Partials. Look - it's, like, all art and creativity and stuff so like - if I put some words together and make a tune that happens to be exactly the same as other peoples music then like - it's like all synchronicity and shit. Go like - smoke a bowl or something - bro.

rws0006

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:45:17 -0600

Josebear, That part of it is a good debate, perhaps, though I disagree with you. But you also said The Secret Show ripped off Red Hunter, and that part is a slanderous lie.

josebear

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:24:46 -0600

The Secret Show people just don't get it. Nobody is saying you can't play music outside, wherever you like. The point here is that you've taken a concept that had meaning and cheapened it with your marketing tactics in a lame attempt to be alluring. The fact that you call it Secret Show says it all. It should be called McSecret Show.

LoudMouth

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:03:57 -0600

Does anyone like my new song? I just wrote it. *ahem* God Bless Please anything helps, a dollar a dime Please anything helps, can’t go to the shelter this time Please anything helps, penniless not hopeless Please anything helps, god bless Please hide this mess, I’m just waiting here in line Please hide this mess, try working for your money sometime I don’t need more stress, that will never be me In my Christian Dior dress, my cell phone and my coffee God bless everything, help me witness worlds of worth In the joy and the suffering, the circumstance of every birth Goddess bless everyone from the flicker of the thinnest flame to the fury of the sun Please save me from my own self righteousness Please help me become a picture of kindness Please let me see beauty under it’s disquise Please lift this fog and enlighten my eyes This is my prayer said aloud with rapturous voice This is my prayer, this is my choice Please help me see beauty under it’s disguise Please lift this fog and enlighten my eyes Please anything helps, a dollar a dime. Please God send me a sign Please anything helps, a smile a nod. Please send me a sign from God Please send me a sign O God.

LoudMouth

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:01:34 -0600

Oh yeah, and I am, as of right now, downloading all the music of Mo Pair, Some Say Leland, The Blue Hit and Infinite Partials onto my computer so that I can burn it to disks and sell it as my own. Hope you don't mind! I am totally not ripping you off by the way - it's only money!

LoudMouth

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:27:23 -0600

you ARE angry - I also like your anger as well.

LoudMouth

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:23:53 -0600

Red - fuck these little kids who can't think for themselves. I like that your angry and you aren't afraid of stepping on some toes to make a space for yourself. Keep it up brother.

oh steph

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:23:41 -0600

So, I thought it was interesting that this showed up on austinist, as the name "Secret Show" would indicate that it is not a public thing, but to Red's comment, a sacred, private event. I don't take issue with the publicity, but rather the continued guise that this is under the radar of the general public. I personally received an email from one of the musicians that was participating in this show - a musician whom I had never met or had any contact with. I suppose that they got my email address from here, but I was puzzled by the intent of the invite. I love live music and go to shows quite often, but why would you blast invitations for an intimate event to people with whom you have never had a musical conversation? I was invited to a couple Order of the Owl events by a friend of Whiskey&Apples, but never attended. (I know, for shame!) However, these invites were by phone call, not by a myspace bulletin, or by email or a friendfeed. Not that there is anything wrong with spreading yourself out to the larger populous, but as one commenter put it before, eventually such tactics will bring about the demise of these events. And maybe that will spawn new, creative endeavors. We shall see.

citizen527

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:17:05 -0600

Red. Are you kidding me? I haven't been bothered to read most of this discussion because I'm finding it pretty annoying. I have only recently met the folks associated with the secret show, and over a few beers a little while ago it was brought up that a location for the next show hadn't been decided on. I have never heard of you ( no offense meant ), or read whiskey and apples, and I dropped the idea to do the show on the island and offered up my jon boat as one of the means for getting people out to it. I have spent a good bit of time on that lake, including the island. I'm sorry if you feel your idea has been "ripped off", but quite plainly it wasn't because it was not your idea that inspired this event. It was truly a coincidence, of myself feeling like that island has always been a good location for gatherings of all kinds, and the folks from the secret show always looking for new spots to put these on. That should put your mind at ease. If you're put off about the whole idea of these shows being copycatted, I really can't see where your frustration would lie, I mean folks putting on music in a venue outside the bar scene, how novel, right?

jaffie

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:06:39 -0600

Hello, I am also involved somewhat with the secret show and have yet to chime in on this little debate, which I think is a valid one. I do, however, think that people aren't reading each others posts and keep saying the same things, flat out stating untruths, and asking questions that have already been answered. I don't know how many times any of us has to say these things, but maybe one more might do it. So here goes: 1. As far as I know, no one involved in the secret show has ever said that what we are doing is totally unique. We have stated numerous times that very similar things happen all over the world. Some of us have even been involved with groups in other cities that did similar things. We did not know about each other before moving to Austin, and were delighted to meet people with similar ideas. ZEITGEIST. Look it up. For instance, I, personally, was doing simlar shows about 8 years ago. Here are just a few more links to other similar things many other people are doing and have been doing for a while now: www.xlr8r.com/tv/41 www.takeawayshows.com www.myspace.com/dodiyusa Also, any one ever heard of "The Beatles"? They did a show on a roof one time. 2. We have NEVER advertised for these shows in any form other than Myspace, word-of-mouth, and passing out fliers with instructions on them to people who were already interested. The press we have gotten from the Statesman, Austinist, and Austinsound.net has been totally welcomed, but unsolicited. We have NEVER sent out press releases, and NEVER posted anything on facebook or craigslist. The advertising is seriously done word of mouth among friends of the organizers and the bands that are playing. Let me stress one more time for Red and the others who seem to think that we've "gone to the press from the beginning." WE HAVE NEVER GONE TO THE PRESS ABOUT ANY OF THIS. We have had things written about us and have been interviewed, but it was ALL UNSOLICITED by us. Finally, we try to plan all of the shows so that they are fairly centralized and accessible by bike. So the overlap was bound to happen eventually. I had honestly never heard of Red's island show until I read these posts. Furthurmore, the guy that showed us the island said he had been to a few parties and a few other shows there. And for the record, I just checked with him, and the other shows he saw there were not affiliated with Red Hunter. So yeah, it seemed like a cool (even inevitable) idea for a show location. No, I didn't "google" it first to verify that we wouldn't get a curse "for trespassing on sacred ground."

Unprofitable

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:43:35 -0600

I, for one, think secret show is a great idea, even if it's stolen. You can't have enough good music played outdoors, as far as I'm concerned. But I've only seen one Red Hunter show, and I thought it sucked. It was during SXSW at Rancho Relaxo, and perhaps he was just tired, or uninspired. I thought it was the least coherent thing I saw all weekend, despite the rest of the bands playing there being really terrific. Since those guys throw such great shows in their backyard, should anyone else's backyard shows be stopped due to un-originality?

cram

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:36:46 -0600

i'm just waiting for Room 710 to demand equal coverage of their tugboat excursion down the sewage filled alley behind their club.

reynard

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:36:14 -0600

that's cool. I just think you're doing so in a way that is pompous, exaggerative and ludicrous. Also, Red was admittedly harsh there, but I also think it seems obvious (to he and I, both) what's going on here. But whatever, have your fun. I hope you all get lots of press, rendering you optionless but to return to "the underground."

rws0006

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:26:42 -0600

RHunter, I wasn't involved in creating or putting together the secret shows. I did play at 2 of them (Ron Scott for transparency sake) and am friends with those who are put these on. I really think your accusations are wrong, that's all. And yes, I believe in synchronicity, even though I was also putting that out there to push some buttons for fun, which I assume is what you're doing with your whole leaving bums in the dust as you go off to Europe, unless you really are that full of yourself. I assume you're just hurt by what you see as a rip-off, but I think your accusations are wrong.

rws0006

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:18:14 -0600

reynard, just saying what I see that's all. and yes I do think I know what I'm talking about.

rhunter

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:12:17 -0600

Is the fact that you're denying trying to get me involved in your lame-ass ripoff in December synchronicity, too? I honestly can't believe you're denying awareness of what we did, and denying sending me that invite on 12/24/07 which I will gladly forward to anyone who wants to see it, and now you're offering definitions of words from dictionary.com, thinking that might excuse you. The reason for all these coincidences is a lot simpler than your mystic archetypal mumbo jumbo. It's that you thought you could get away with copying our scene and underestimated a) how many people already knew what we did and b) that some of us would care. To your question "like wow, what more can be done with this?" my hope, honestly, is that you will do nothing more with this. When we started to see growing crowds at our last couple shows, you know what we did? WE STOPPED. Word had gotten too far and they didn't feel as sacred and pure as when we started. But you! You have gone to the press from the beginning, seeking publicity from the onset, and you look like a bunch of sellout fakes. I'm sure a lot of the musicians and people coming to the shows have had a great time, but whoever's behind your "secret shows" is the phony i'm talking to. I can't stop you from doing more of your lame shows, but I can assure you that by knocking on the door of all the local press with each one of your ripoff shows, you have forever cheapened the whole concept. A curse on you for trespassing on sacred ground.

reynard

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:06:52 -0600

of course, sacred synchronicity! after all, you did use the word archetype, you must know what you're talking about. yuk yuk, I'm just gonna go look up archetype in the dictionary now. oh, and can I have some of what you're smoking, too?

rosie

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:04:02 -0600

so, seriously, this Red guy needs to calm down. I have been to a couple secret shows, i have played at one. They are gorgeous and delicious and amazing to be a part of. I just moved to Austin this year from Portland, and i don't know of anything quite so beautiful as this going on up there. As for the whole "phonies" and "copycat" business. Who gives a godamn whether you came up with the idea first?! i sure don't. I don't play music and try to create good experiences for people because i want all the credit for it! I do it because i love to do it. Maybe that's not altruistic, but at least it's not cocky and immature. I don't want every person who's ever done something similar to look at my timeline and say i influenced them because i happened do it a year or two earlier. Calm down, go to Europe and let the people have their music. Rock on secret show, rock on.

rws0006

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:45:45 -0600

Of course all my comments are opinions, but ya, now I'm really interested in why these similarities have taken place. I think it points to the Sacred, as Red says, and it's like wow what more can be done with this? The synchronicity of all this fascinates me. What is the function of this, that it comes up again 3 years later in a such a similar fashion? It must be important, touching on some crucial archetypes (I'll let you look that up) that are needed for all of us.

yamcheeo

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:45:25 -0600

Synchronicity is an interesting idea but a hard sell. At the end of the day none of this matters, especially for the bystanders who aren't even in any of the bands involved, but it would seem really strange that even while looking into the idea of putting on the secret show on the island, that they would not have come upon any press from Red's previous performance.

yamcheeo

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:34:59 -0600

RE: rws0006 I donno, I think creativity/originality does take work. There is definitely an amount of instinct that nobody can force which is involved, but when push comes to shove it's when one makes their ideas exist beyond their minds or their studios or whatever that counts. In this context at least. As for else, It seems as though the only answers are opinions. My thought for now is: It's strange the comments where people are suggesting that people don't like music. Whether you believe someone started something or these shows are fun or bing badda boom bat, I would venture to say that no one putting a post up is saying that they 'don't like music' or cool shows or something. hah, secret wolf...

RoryandCory

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:32:23 -0600

rock ON! I have to go to work now. I know, next thing you know, you guys are going to say you all have jobs and other stuff to do too but I said it first, therefore I rule.

rhunter

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:31:01 -0600

Dudes, it's about not having a bunch of phonies exploit something you held sacred, do a super lame job promoting it to the local press as if it was their fancy new idea, and cheapen the whole experience. I'm not above responding to a bunch of phonies, either. Something in my blood does not allow me to keep quiet when I'm being ripped off or dissed this way. You know, I had a new idea for you in case my old ideas are starting to bore ya: If you really want to woo the press, you could also try releasing "secret records" with all my songs on them. It would be totally awesome! You could sing about my ex-girlfriends and go to the press and everything, it'd be super unique. I mean, It's a free country. Anyone can sing Red's songs about Red's ex-girlfriends on the same island Red and his friends already rowed everyone to by canoe in 05 and approach the same press about it and call it a "secret." Red must be some kind of freak if he has a problem with that. You could call your new band "Secret Wolf." You've already been to my site where pics from our off-radar shows were held, whiskeyandapples.com/photos, so you know where you can find pictures of me, which you can remove the heads and put your own heads in their place. That'll save you time and the money for future canoe rental. Oh snap, I been havin so much fun here, I nearly forgot I've got a tour in Europe starting tomorrow. Eat my dust ya bunch of bums!

rws0006

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:24:55 -0600

Also, being that there are these similarities, which were not plagiarized, and especially seeing what was just written by the person who drew the sailboat, then I think that there is another answer: synchronicity. Below you'll see that it's a governing dynamic that creates, along with "I", never I by myself, or Red, or SillyBillyGirl. And being that Red and the new secret show people are in the same town, and it's a good idea, synchronicity is bound to take place. On synchronicity (from Wikipedia): Synchronicity is the experience of two or more events which occur in a meaningful manner, but which are causally un-related. It was a principle that Jung felt gave conclusive evidence for his concepts of archetypes and the collective unconscious, in that it was descriptive of a governing dynamic that underlay the whole of human experience and history — social, emotional, psychological, and spiritual.

RoryandCory

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:13:50 -0600

Red, Yo dude! You have to understand that our collective is run by up to 25 people and it is hard to keep track of stuff. Before sxsw, we sent out invitations to a lot of out of town bands to play. You probably received an invitation through that. Sorry, you were one of those people. One of the hundreds of bands who were in town for sxsw...so deal. So...let's be transparent. Until today, I personally had never heard of you or your band. Our group began as just friends playing music in the graveyard. We did this in Denton too so if you have a copyright on that, you should go up to Denton and shake your fist at them too. They play a lot of music up there too. We met there 3 times before we started calling it the secret show. Then we got way stoked and started trying to 1 up ourselves by playing in other places. We have had shows in the power plant, under the street, at a hobo camp, and in Bouldin creek. This has all been for the sheer enjoyment of us and our friends. Until now, we really have been under the radar. I think it's pretty badass that people are talking about us. Go us. We are pretty awesome. No one person is the main "influence" of the secret show. We choose the locations together. The photographs are all contributed by audience members. The press, if any, is not contacted by any of us, it's people who are actually interested in what we are doing and want to write about it. This Austinist thing is a surprise to us. We have never met Adam S. but we are grateful that he is interested in what we are doing. We're going to keep partying and playing music and inviting whoever the hell we want here in Austin. All you people who are anti music and partying can suck a nut. Do you even live in Austin? If you do, come to the show on April 29th and throw eggs at us if you want. So we're basically doing the same thing that you did...so what? Lots of people to this kind of shit. Because it's awesome. And, for the record, I drew the flyer with the sailboat and I have never seen any of your records. Sailboats are pretty easy to draw and I suck at drawing. Blahhhhhh.

reynard

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:11:39 -0600

Also, SillyBillyGirl (if that is your real name), I don't think these are silly questions, and labeling them as such is just arrogant and negligent.

rws0006

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:10:32 -0600

Yamcheeo, I get your plagiarism point. I am sure there wasn't any intentional plagiarism, but I get it. But being original or creative cannot be done. It can only happen. Creativity or originality (same thing) can flow out of a person, but that person cannot do it. If something creative is to come out of me, or if something I do is deemed creative, then great, but I cannot make it happen. No one can.

reynard

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:04:30 -0600

Mostly I just hate the name with a passion. It reminds me of "The Party," which might be the most audaciously unoriginal name for a party in history. If you want to rip off Red - I'll just say that because that's what it is - that's cool; make him a pioneer and give him credit, but don't pretend like you thought of the idea when you clearly didn't. I wasn't at Red's secret shows (I wish I had been) but I certainly shan't be at these, especially with such negative energy created by something purported to be so "positive." The idea of Red's shows as I understand it was to create something organic, and this production has veered far from that ideal, if that is what it was supposed to be (I assume it is).

yamcheeo

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:50:56 -0600

It's not terrible to have a sense of 'ego' (to some), or pride, especially in creative fields where people often find themselves justifying the fact that being creative is work, hard work, and being original in any sense is something that artists frequently deliberate on. This is an interesting issue, not because it matters who's right or wrong or whether people are allowed to have hurt or protective feelings over it, but more so because of a concept that all artists need to be aware of which is plagiarism. Doing something that someone else has done is not without merit, and indeed fuels all kinds of improvements, yet when doing this, unless the idea's predecessor is dead, and even then, the issue of not at least referencing the source of an idea is bound to raise eyebrows.

rws0006

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:20:16 -0600

Either you like to have fun seeing music in unique places or you don't. Is this about ego, who did what, or is about sharing the experience of listening to music with others? ... Others who went out of their way and turned off their tv and didn't go to a bar to get drunk, but instead trekked out to an island or crawled into a sewer or confronted the true eeriness of a graveyard. If this Red or any others care about who did it first or any of that BS, then it's about ego. For me, I like the experience. If it's not your thing, then that's understandable, but I just love the experience. Who cares if it's called "secret"? It's pretty secretive to me, but why is that such an issue here? Do you like music or not? What's the name matter? Does the name Los Angeles Lakers makes sense? I'll go to these other secret shows too, sounds fun, but maybe those are too much of a members-only ego club.

Justin Cox

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:12:48 -0600

as for Secret Show folks.... I think you need to evaluate all this and understand that people have, and will always notice the similarities. Coincidence? "Rip off" (as Red stated)? I don't know and wouldnt venture to guess... but maybe a little transparency on your side wouldnt hurt? I don't know. What you do with all thats coming forth from this discussion is up to you all, but it doesn't really sound like everyone involved is on the same page when it comes to the origins of your shows. The confusion isn't going to help anything

Justin Cox

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:07:53 -0600

i feel like i shouldnt post, because i'll likely end up accused of hating on Red "again" by our mutual friends. so first, let me state for the record that I enjoy Red's music and appreciate the influence he's had on many of my friend's musical projects...both through collaboration and inspiration. i think that a lot of the well-deserved buzz revolving around Red and his music stem from this great mysterious aura he's generated over the past few years. via his tours and things like "Order of the Owl" he's done well to plant the seed and feed this image of a ghostly, wandering soul followed by an ever-ready and every-interchangeable cast of talented characters/musicians. when combined with his anything-but-ordinary brand of music, its a powerfully engaging tool for his musical endeavors. i'll admit that i was and still am happy to buy into it. thus, i can fully understand his sense of irritation with something that might detract from it by so closely mimicking its essence (whether intentional or not). with that said, the ranting just comes across as petty and whiny - plain and simple. Maybe its just me but he would have been better off saying nothing, or at least being more subtle in his displeasure. its already obvious people have recognized the similarities and it would only be a matter of time before someone called it all in to question. I know I was planning on bringing some of this up if no one else did. I don't know...maybe I'm just from a different school of thought when it comes to all of this. a simple statement would have done the trick

rhunter

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 10:30:16 -0600

Hey, first off I'd just like to say that it's totally cool when people have shows in off-radar locations. But it's not totally cool for them to approach the press for it in Austin where the exact same thing already received ample coverage from the Austinist, the Chronicle, and everyone else around the world two years earlier. And yes, "secret show" did invite me to play their "secret" sxsw show, and to deny that publicly is really not helping their case, especially when I still have a copy of that invite for anyone to view themselves (included below.) Acting like it's a memory slip on my part so they can continue to deny knowledge of how we already did the exact same shows in the same locations they're copying is just comical. They sent me that invitation via myspace at 9:28 pm on Dec. 24th, 2007 from their myspace.com/theaustinsecretshow profile and now proceed to deny it publicly? I'll gladly forward that email to anyone who wants to see it, just myspace me. I leave for Europe tomorrow and I assure you I don't spend a lot of time thinking about these little ripoff shows---just enough time to realize that they're doing the exact same things we did in 05 and pretending like it's this fresh, new idea of theirs. PS, nice flyer, too. The sailboat and compass image appears on the disc to our official release, Lightness. I'm sure it's just another coincidence, like their cemetery show, their secret sxsw show, their canoe trip to the exact same island, it's all just a huge coincidence. Here's their copied invitiation, again note the way they don't acknowledge that we already did this, even though they're writing directly to me: "Hello friend, We love your music. Do you think you would like to play the secret show during sxsw? We see you will be in atx. We want to have it in one of the underground tunnels downtown. We have been recording in there. Great acoustics. whaddya think? ss"

vaughnwalters

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 10:07:26 -0600

wow. good point. any place that has already had a show should never have a show there again. lamar bridge should never have another show. continental club, no more shows. seriously though, that's pretty dumb. sure, the secret is out, but that's because it's fuckin' rad and fun and positive and something people want to be a part of. cheers to that!

Adam S

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:46:54 -0600

and also, since I was never invited to any Order of the Owl shows (ahem!) I like that these Secret Shows are so much more accessible...if not all that "secret" in reality.

Adam S

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:46:00 -0600

Since I wrote this post and asked Red for his opinion, I'd like to weigh in as well. I like the idea that we can and should enjoy music in a non-traditional places. You take a chance that way, and the experience is sure to be more special than your average night at a club. Order of the Owl was a great idea, and it obviously planted seeds in the minds of adventurous Austinites. The Secret Shows idea, which, admittedly, are less secret with each Austinist post, have their heart in the right place. Bringing new music to people who might not normally hear said music, in an interesting setting, is superb. But I understand Red's ire. After all, that island doesn't have his name on it, but playing secret shows on said island is basically retracing his steps, and that would annoy most people. If the Secret Show people want to fly right, they're either going to need to be much more explicit about Red's influence, or outgrow it.

BillyJack

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 01:55:52 -0600

I am also somewhat involved with the "secret show." Here's my two cents. We heard about the island from a friend who said he'd been to a few parties and even another concert out there, he thought we might be interested in doing one of our shows there. So we checked it out, and we agreed. I am originally from Louisiana. When I was in high school, my group of friends used to play shows in random areas around our small town. Once in an abandoned shack in the wooks, once in a public children's park sitting on top of the monkey bars. The music was terrible, only a handful of close friends came and we thought we were the first to do something like this. We weren't. Nothing is totally original when you research it. Into my adult life I learned more about other people around the country doing the same sort of thing. I have been to similar shows in San Marcos and Nacogdoches. There are also other people doing similar shows in Austin besides us. There are shows under the bridge, in basements, in caves, and on the street, and even punk shows on the pedestrian bridge that we go to although we are not affiliated with them at all. There are lots of DIY groups doing similar types of shows, and have been for a while. Here's proof. Go to this myspace page: www.myspace.com/dodiyusa Next, the bands are always different. Our own projects play at the shows occasionally, but the vast majority of the bands that have played the shows have just been bands that we like, whose music may not fit as well in typical music venues around Austin. Also, the thing I love about these shows is that they are not so exclusive. Sure, it's not so much of a secret anymore, but it's something that belongs to Austin, not a small group of friends. I have been surprised to see so many different kinds of people at these shows, young and old, punks, hippies, travelers, and we have never gotten a negative response from anyone, except for a guy that said that tea light candles kind of creep him out. Finally, we've been careful to never say that what we are doing is totally unique. We were interviewed by austinsound.net a few months ago, and talked at length about other DIY shows including "The Order of the Owl." P.S. - We did not invite Red Hunter to play at the sxsw secret show. Maybe one of the other groups around town doing DIY shows did, but we did not. Although, I enjoy Red Hunter's music and will continue to purchase his albums in support of what he does.

SmugglersDeadly

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 00:51:46 -0600

Also: people need to just do their research before they go on public rants. It kinda makes you look dumb when youre wrong. just sayin.

SillyBillyGirl

Thu, 27 Mar 2008 00:40:55 -0600

wow. cool. Well there's the surprise. Now I guess we know that Red Hunter thinks about us. A LOT. I guess that's a testament to the saying "you can't please everyone so you might as well please yourself." We'll keep pleasing ourselves and we'll allow that Red Hunter should do the same.

RoryandCory

Wed, 26 Mar 2008 23:52:47 -0600

wow. I think everyone needs to smoke some weed and chill. This is Austin.

Adam S

Wed, 26 Mar 2008 21:19:00 -0600

Folks, I went to Red to get his opinion. This is his response, and he made it clear he was okay with it being made "public." "Yeah, I've heard of those phonies, but I can't believe they're actually ripping it off right down to the very island!! I was stunned when they invited me to play their "secret" sxsw show this year, which is what I did three years ago to start the whole thing off (see pics from the first show at the cemetery, whiskeyandapples. com/photos i believe is where that stuff is located. ) These people have modeled their pictures and the whole vibe of what they're doing after what has been posted on my site whiskeyandapples. com since 2006, including some very highly-circulated pictures of our canoe trip to that island so long ago. The coincidence of it would be too great, it seems far more likely that they saw the artists who had taken part in those shows experiencing later success and have set out to imitate it, hoping nobody calls them on it. it actually bothers me a lot. there has been so much documentation and press, both in austin as well as all around the world, that it's amazing anyone would try to start something like that and take credit for it without acknowledging the people who originally did it (see our lengthy press list at myspace. com/whiskeyandapples which features tons of national press like NPR and countless interviews/articles commenting on the uniqueness of our shows, which began on THAT VERY ISLAND because i could see it from the street where I lived at the time. ) Since these "secret show" people invited me to perform at their sxsw show this year through myspace, where I have pictures/press from those shows posted, it further increases the likelihood that they would've seen/heard about that stuff, although the fact that they're now going as far as the very island we did is just too much to take sitting down. I don't mind if you put that on the record, either. I try to live my life creatively and go where my vision takes me. If people want to copy what I do, they should try copying the originality part, not the actual ideas. ps, what we did was way cooler, for the record. word-of-mouth to friends only, with no pretense about its secrecy, only the desire to have fun in untrodden places. not a bunch of flyers advertising the exact location of a "secret show. " that is a complete oxymoron and reduces their whole thing to a joke. fuckin lame."

SillyBillyGirl

Wed, 26 Mar 2008 17:04:51 -0600

Hi friends! I am one of the creators of the secret show. We have been doing it for about a year now, once a month. We started it because we are all musicians that like to play strange, quiet music and were tired of playing in bars where if anyone clinked a glass or was talking too loud, it really disrupted the listening environment we were trying to create. (also, truth be told, we're all a little crazy and like climbing into sewers and trees and out to islands to play our instruments) For this reason, we started putting on little shows, mostly for our friends, in weird little places around town. The listening environment was magical. Everyone dead silent. Wind. Trees. Ambient sound. We then created the myspace so that people could keep up with us more easily. Then others joined. We have been thrilled that so many people have become interested in the Secret Show. We have met so many interesting musicians, artists, people with boats, listeners, and urban explorers. The intention of the Secret Show however is and always has been our personal enjoyment. We really don't care how many people come. We'll keep doing it for ourselves. Halloween was the best one by the way. All you guys missed it. Running around in the graveyard with transvestites always gets the blood moving. So... I wholeheartedly agree, it has definitely outgrown its monniker...but that's okay. We still want it to seem like a secret, even if our 400 myspace friends know about it. We aren't really used to so many people being interested in the show so we actually had to turn some away at the sxsw show and last night. We always expect a couple dozen...not a couple hundred from all over the world who are so cool we can barely stand it and who love our music too! These people that come to the shows have been the best audiences. It's been so awesome. We are hoping to deal with some of the crowd issues next month. We're working it out. Sorry if you didn't get in last night or at sxsw. So...what else? Oh, Red Hunter. No, we are not affiliated with him. When we first started doing the shows, someone mentioned him and we started listening to his music and checking out some of the stuff he does. He's great. Sailboat tour. That is freaking badass. His music is similar to ours (quiet and weird) and I can see how he would seek a non-sixth street option to present it also. It's cool to see others who have done creative things with music and public space. I would be interested in what Red Hunter thinks of us. Surprised really, that he would think of us at all. There are several other groups that hold secret events in town and have been doing it since the 1970's. I think we get a little flak for not being as...ahem...secret as they are but we have really been enjoying the way we are promoting and conducting the shows and that is the goal. Our enjoyment. If you are interested in the groups that have secret punk shows, secret clown shows, secret dance parties, and secret film screenings, hit us up on myspace. It's on the DL...but we'll tell you about it. Finally, if you enjoy secret shows but don't like the way we are doing it, do it yourself! That's the best thing of all. We hope to start something like that, where people feel like they can have a show wherever they want, without permission or worrying about who's commenting on who's blogs about it. After all, no one has a trademark on the secret show either....so have at it! Hoping this answers some of your silly questions, see you all on April 29th.. shhh. ha. ss

LoudMouth

Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:58:17 -0600

It's not whispered in your ear if it's put up on myspace. and austinist. and craigslist. and the austin chronicle site. and facebook. and so on and so on and so on.

danjo

Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:24:31 -0600

That's what makes secrets exciting, having something whispered in your ear or overhearing someone else's conversation. The secret travels fast because it's cool and it has urgency, especially since the locations change every time. I heard people talking about it at the yellow bike project. I had doubts at first too, but I went to one, and now I'll probably try to go to as many as I can for as long as they do them.

LoudMouth

Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:06:37 -0600

This country is fucked up beyond repair if people think that secrets demand the telling of secrets. I'm with reynard, it's not a secret if you tell.

Butter Woman

Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:31:45 -0600

So a real secret is something absolutely no one knows, except for the secret-makers? Who would be at the show?

reynard

Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:50:27 -0600

whatever, it's still not a secret.

danjo

Wed, 26 Mar 2008 13:27:21 -0600

josebear, do you think that Red Hunter is the first person that ever decided to have a show in an unusual place? They have been doing this for a while and even had a show in the storm drains under the city last week, which I was lucky enough to attend. It was amazing, and so was this one. The shows are always in a different, interesting place around Austin, and the bands are alwasy differnt and always interesting. I think that saying they're ripping off Red Hunter is silly. If everyone lived their life saying that you should never do something that's been done before, then life would be pretty boring, and Red Hunter would've never done his, because he certainly wasn't the first. P.S. The shows are only advertised among their myspace friends and by word of mouth and the location is usually not known until a few days before the show. Sounds pretty secretive to me.

Adam S

Wed, 26 Mar 2008 11:44:29 -0600

I don't know if anyone has a trademark on "shows on an island," josebear, but I'd be interested to hear Red's opinion. And I realize the shows are less secret now, thanks.

josebear

Wed, 26 Mar 2008 10:53:46 -0600

Is Red Hunter a friend of the "secret show" folks or are they just blatantly ripping him off? P.S. It's not a secret show when you advertise it and invite anybody to come. Just call it a show.