Austinist Interviews SXSW: Second Skin Producer Victor Piñeiro

There are millions of online gamers. How did you find the ones featured in Second Skin? And was it difficult to fill all the personality types you felt you needed to make a compelling story?

One of the first things we did was light a beacon online- get a website up, advertise what we were looking for, and try to get the word out. I was posting like mad on all of the virtual worlds forums, and reading other people’s posts- it felt like we were getting nowhere for a month or so. Then, slowly, possible subjects started trickling into our inboxes. Of course, our budget started out really low, so we couldn’t travel far.

I found the Indiana Boys (our main subjects) through the World of Warcraft forums- or, rather, Andy found me. Our lovers I found on a post at an academic forum for virtual worlds. And our addict was a complete fluke- he just happened to be at the same place as another interview we had. We almost neglected to interview him.

We got really, absurdly lucky in finding the right personality types. We risked a lot of money on travelling to Indiana, Florida and Texas to meet our subjects. It wasn’t easy, but once the cameras went on, our subjects shined.

There's a fantastic tagline in your marketing materials about gamers "living in a world that doesn't quite exist." Was this, for you, primarily a film about a social phenomenon, or did you consider the deeper, existential questions from the outset?

Well, the three of us definitely talk a lot about the deeper, existential implications of this phenomenon- hell, I have a bookshelf that’s all Sartre and Camus- I love that stuff. When Juan first began editing this mess together (400+ hours of footage!) he stuck to telling the stories of our subjects. Then, as he continued honing the movie, he let in all the big questions. We have one interview, with the ‘daddy’ of virtual world academia, that’s just mind-blowing. Of the 75 interviews we shot, his was the most amazing. We wanted to make a movie that would get people talking about this phenomenon, not only as a social phenomenon, but as a philosophical one. I think Juan did a phenomenal job of balancing this strand with the rest.

There are all kinds of negative things associated with online gaming--like the underground economies that have popped up around "gaming sweatshops". Is gaming to blame for these things in any way, or does it just get an undeserved bad rep, like Myspace has?

This is definitely the big question everyone asks when they hear about our movie. When we began filming the movie, we thought it was going to end up with a slightly negative outlook, considering that the first headlines we read were about gaming sweatshops and online gaming addicts. But as we delved into the worlds and the gamers over the next few years, we found that the opposite was true. These games bring people together, they let people meet each other without judgement or ‘real world baggage’ and they give many a huge creative outlet. If you have an addictive personality, these games could well take over your life- they have a lot of appealing features. One of our movie’s subjects has his life completely destroyed by them. However, its no different than the ESPN nuts, fantasy football junkies, or the countless social addictions people have. Its something that you can potentially sink a lot of time and energy into. But its also a hell of a lot of fun.

We also subvert the widely-held belief about gold farms- ‘gaming sweatshops’- we spent two weeks in China and explored the complexity of the situation. I think that our gold farming scene will force people to rethink what they’ve heard about gold farms. We also have some priceless footage of gold farmers belting out karaoke- one of my favorite moments.

There's a great “Simpsons” gag where the kids refuse to do yard work, but then at a gaming expo they can't wait to play a game called "virtual yard work". And I'll be the first to admit that my initial inclination when first playing GTA was to run over as many people as possible. What is it about gaming that practically compels us to do things we might not otherwise do?

I love that Simpsons episode, and, yes, I’ve run over far too many people in GTA. In virtual worlds there’s a huge phenomenon of ‘griefing’- playing the game simply to cause grief to other players through harassment. Virtual worlds are still young, and in this nascent stage, they’re still places that often have no consequences to accompany your actions. I’ll admit, I’m a bit of a prankster, and sometimes in Second Life and World of Warcraft, I’ll do or say something to annoy another player- it’s just so tempting, because one can often get away with it! What’s even more fascinating are the different ways that accountability does exist inside these worlds- some of our subjects go to extra lengths to do right, because reputation means everything inside some of these worlds. If word gets out that you’re a jerk, you might as well switch games- no one will let you team up with them or join their guild.

Have the film's subjects seen a rough cut? And are they pleased with the way they're presented?

Something you hear in Documentary Filmmaking 101 is ‘never befriend your subjects’- thankfully, our executive producer is famous for disagreeing with that philosophy, and told us so early on. Which is a good thing, because we’ve become extremely close with almost all of our subjects. The Indiana Boys have visited us in NYC, and Andy’s twin sons are going to be ring-bearers at my wedding. Dan (our film’s addict) and the three of us email back-and-forth daily. They’ve become some of our closest friends.

Early on we were terrified at the thought of showing our subjects the film- Juan has done a remarkable job of portraying them fairly, but who’s to say what they’ll think of their portrayal? As we started showing the movie to test audiences, we heard over and over that we shouldn’t worry, that they’re all presented in a good light. Which isn’t to say its all sunshine and lollipops- one of our subjects almost dies, another suffers a hell of a lot, and all of them go through some serious rough spots. But at the end of the day- well, you’ll just have to watch the movie and see.

At this year's festival, you're participating on a panel titled "Blogs, Buzz, and Buddy Lists". What, if anything, did working on this film teach you about social networks? Are games basically specialized social networks?

I think virtual worlds are gradually becoming specialized social networks, some more than others. Obviously there’s no one-stop-shop where you’ll find all of your friends- no Facebook or Myspace. But each one of these games/worlds are definitely a community, where nearly everyone plays a role. I think we’re moving towards a virtual world (or a group of virtual worlds) where you’ll be able to find most of your friends. The 2D web is still far easier to navigate than the 3D version- but that might change eventually. Maybe we’ll all be emigrating to virtual worlds in a few years. See you on the other side!

Have you been to South By Southwest before? If so, what's your favorite thing to do in Austin?

Juan and I grew up in San Antonio (we’re brothers) but we moved to Maryland for high school. Since then we’ve visited our friends in Texas, but never had a true Austin experience. The fact that SXSW will be our first time in Austin has the three of us so stoked- we’re either losing sleep because of movie anxiety, or SXSW/Austin excitement. Plus, I hear there’s some decent BBQ to be had…

Second Skin will have its World Premiere Friday March 7th at the Austin Convention Center as part of the South by Southwest Film Festival. For more info, check out the Film Threat / B-Side SXSW Guide.