The Future of Pedicabs In Austin

ever watch a taxi, limo, valet driver?

limo's drive slow block entire lanes of traffic and get caught in intersections during gridlock.

taxi's block entire lanes, make sudden stops and drive like psycho's

Valet block entire lanes, put everyone in danger cause they drive like mad crazy people, run into busy roads......i can go on and on.

traffic downtown at night is crazy

going fast gets people killed and doesnt get you any where quicker

ever notice red lights and stop signs?

pedicabs are realy big and noticeable. they have slow moving vehicle triangles.

if a car cant change lanes and pass a pedicab without even slowing down that probably means that traffic is congested already by the large number of cars on the road.

wake up people....

if you drive on 6th 5th or 4th you shouldn't be in a rush.

if your in a hurry to get through downtown drive on 7th 9th or cesar chavez.

drive on guadalupe not congress or colorado.

as far as the operation time limits.

should that apply to taxi's and buses too?

i guess people dont ever get stop behind a bus.

YoYoMa wrote:

1. "I can pass a bicycle without leaving my lane."

2. "I cannot do the same with a pedicab (which is going even slower)."

3. "I've been on west 6th (whole foods area) with pedicabs trying to operate in the middle of high traffic at night and if you think that's a good idea, you're an idiot."

4. "We don't need any more pedicabs in high traffic areas like that."

Yours is an interesting perspective. I think I have a different perspective on most of these things. If you have the time, take a gander....

Re #1: I ride my bicycle such that rarely can a 4+ wheel motor vehicle can pass in the same lane as me. A bicyclist allowing themselves to be passed by a car in the same lane is setting themselves up to run out of safe space, or to be hit be a subsequent car that didn't realize the first car was avoiding the bicycle. An experienced bicyclist is typically safer asserting their legal right to not share the lane.

When I drive a car, I would almost never drive in the same lane as a bicyclist. When I do, I slow down to a safe passing speed.

Re #2: I think that if a pedicab fits into one street lane, then its greater width than a two-wheeler should rarely make a difference regarding attempts to pass it.

However, I totally agree that pedicabs average a lower speed than private bicycles.

(I suppose some argument could be made that fewer pedicabs means more pedestrians walking in the street, but it's just speculation to say that such a relation is significant.)

Re #3: Oh my. Okay, I agree that there is good in people being able to get around quickly, but your statement seems to ignore the sacrifices that others have to make because of the 4+ wheel motor vehicle congestion. There are various places around Austin, including the area you mention, that people cannot get through easily because of the large space-consuming private motor vehicles. Try taking the #338 bus through there at rush hour. Try taking any bus on Guadalupe at the Drag during rush hour. All of those bus riders could get home more quickly if private motorists didn't clog up the streets. Why don't motorists take a different route or park next to the freeway so that those that don't waste the space can get around more easily? (I realize that's a lot to ask of motorists who go from one, sweet lick of the gas pedal to another.)

Then add to that the people who ride bicycles to get around, the people who live around there who have a much stronger reason to use their cars than many commuters.

And then, really, it is a public street, paid for by Austinites in general, not by gas taxes. The rights-of-way use space that exists for anyone to get around, not just motorists. The public streets with their intermittent sidewalks and bicycle-specific facilities (save for helicopters, rare rails, or rare trails) are the *only* way anyone can make their way around the city. Why should the least-space-efficient mode (private cars) get the highest priority?

Why do private motorists travel at highly excessive speeds on 6th St., especially west of Lamar Blvd., thus making the street much less usable for bicyclists?

Is there a law that allows or demands motorists must ignore posted speed limits and have a non-zero BAC whenever possible? Ugh.

And then, there are how many lanes on west 6th Street? And what fraction of those should private motor vehicle drivers get? I'm sure that motorists will have no problem finding room to pass a pedicab or private bicyclist on 6th St. If there is too much private-motor-vehicle congestion that prevents passing a pedicab, then the pedicabs are the least of your traffic congestion worries.

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So I've stated these views strongly, but all of my points are essential as part of a civic discussion regarding this issue. But what's a respectful compromise?

"They can't believe you're advocating against human-powered transportation."

That's a misrepresentation of my position - and it shows how ridiculous your complaints are. All I said was that they should bear more _regulation_ than private bicycles since they are fundamentally NOT the same thing as bicycles (bicycles don't carry passengers; bicycles don't take up as much space; etc.).

Just like how cabs labor under more regulations than do private automobiles.

Since you can't travel via sidewalks without crossing streets, I wouldn't say that they make pedestrians impervious to automobiles or call them a sanctuary.

It's difficult to assign blame to the pedestrian in these incidents as Cram seeks to do because most of these collisions leave the pedestrian unable to testify. I'm sure the guy who was killed Nov. 23 crossing East 6th by the hit-and-run driver ( http://tinyurl.com/3x6363 ) would have a different perspective than that of the driver.

Clearing pedicabs from the streets so cars can travel faster downtown doesn't increase pedestrian safety. It also doesn't encourage people to use alternative transportation modes.

m,

Perhaps those friends of yours rolling on the floor laughing are responding to your loss of focus on this issue. They can't believe you're advocating against human-powered transportation.

Seth

PS, Seth, can the last name address. You're not my gym teacher.

Seth, you're preaching to the choir on a lot of this (most people who know me would be rolling on the floor laughing at the thought of me getting lectured by somebody else about the need to get more bikes and less cars on the road), but in the meantime, we don't have the _power_ to clean the streets of cars, so there is a certain amount of responsibility required.

"cram" pretty much nailed it. Sidewalks are safe.

How many of those pedestrian deaths are on the sidewalk (where a car hops the curb) and how many are when a pedestrian is crossing the street?

My guess is most pedestrian deaths occur when either:

a. the pedestrian runs across the crosswalk right as a light has turned green

b. the pedestrian foolishly jumps out in the street to cross and doesn't see oncoming traffic (either at a crosswalk or in the middle of the block)

c. the vehicle driver essentially runs a red light and doesn't see someone legally crossing the street (because of alcohol, stupidity, etc)

Other than the moron who drove into the side of Iron Cactus a couple of months ago, I haven't seen many cars hopping curbs downtown and driving over the sidewalks.

Yoyoma,

I fully agree that pedicab riders are lazy. The value pedicabs bring is that they act as a stopgap to keep the lazy people quiet as we increase density by reducing parking footprints. They ferry people from the fewer-and-more remote parking lots to businesses that also would be vocal opponents to reduced parking. Ideally, another form of transit will replace the pedicabs and the cars the lazies rode in on.

Dahmus,

The majority of people killed by drunk drivers are not on bicycles or pedicabs. In Austin, 16% of these fatalities are pedestrians and 47% of these incidents involve alcohol. Granted, there are more pedestrians than bicyclists or pedicab passengers so these stats are rather skewed, but that sidewalk isn't the sanctuary you've hoped for.

Instead of moving the targets around, I recommend that we stop treating drunk drivers like they're god's gift to the streets. Oh, and while we're living up to our progressive-city reputation, we need to stop breaking our backs to make driving cars more convenient. Our future does not ride shotgun in fossil-fuel burning cars, and the quicker we embrace this reality, the better off we'll be.

Seth

Seth, the passenger in the pedicab is definitely at more risk than if they were a pedestrian (on the sidewalk) or riding in an automobile (at least, on the same street). I'll grant you that if they were riding their own bikes, they'd be no better off, but come on - be real.

I can pass a bicycle without leaving my lane. I cannot do the same with a pedicab (which is going even slower). I've been on west 6th (whole foods area) with pedicabs trying to operate in the middle of high traffic at night and if you think that's a good idea, you're an idiot. We don't need any more pedicabs in high traffic areas like that.

Also, pedicabs provide a dubious benefit for LAZY people who don't feel like walking. Most of the time those people wouldn't drive, they'd either complain while walking or not go at all.

I don't mean to incite the dahmus, but I do think you're assuming a lot about where I live and what times I travel.

Pedicabs provide a valuable transit service. They put no one at more risk than they already are as pedestrians or riding a single-person bicycle.

All this hub-bub is in response to the hit-and-run accidents that have occurred between drunk motorists and pedicabs. Increasing regulations on the pedicabs is placing the burden of responsibility on the victim for these crimes.

Seth

As a downtown resident, I want more pedicabs (and less cabs) because I think they are a great downtown idea in a city like Austin (relatively small, relatively nice weather most of the time, lots of people who shouldn't drive because of drinking, lots of people who want to go 5-15 blocks, etc).

But they block traffic in the evenings downtown almost as much as beer delivery trucks and those horses/carriages. Anyone who has never been stuck behind a pedicab (empty or filled) on 5th st is a lucky individual.

Seth,

"When I'm travelling through the city, I can't recall being stuck behind a pedicab or fearing that one might collide with me."

My elephant repellent is working great too.

Did you guys all fail reading comprehension at the same time or what? Pedicabs are currently only allowed in a small part of downtown and not during rush hour; thus, it stands to reason that you haven't been stuck behind one or fearing a collision. They're currently only operating during low-congestion times.

thank you voice of reason seth...

in short hating on pedicabs is like saying

"OMGZ! my cars gotz no room to kill everythingz!... i haz idea get rid of bikez, unicornz, and babiez"

thank you voice of reason seth...

in short hating on pedicabs is like saying

"OMGZ! my cars gotz no room to kill everythingz!... i haz idea get rid of bikez, unicornz, and babiez"

Carl said he is concerned with congestion and safety: "I think there are already serious safety issues and congestion problems that we don't need to add to."

When I'm travelling through the city, I can't recall being stuck behind a pedicab or fearing that one might collide with me.

I try to recognize the nuances and shades of an issue, but in this case, it looks like the govt. is further entrenching our city in its fossil-fuel addiction.

Blaming pedicabs for congestion is like blaming High Occupancy Vehicle lanes for congestion. Sure, it would be nice to just have another lane for low-occupant vehicles, but then that would betray the reasoning behind HOV in the first place. Same with pedicabs.

Seth

I've had an idea for a while, but now I'm just waiting...for a pedicab business to sprout up around North Campus, West Campus and/or Hyde Park to deliver hungover students to and fro their shanties at a reasonable price.

I can't imagine there's much demand for the pedicab service outside of the area or times already described in the regulations... living near downtown, I've never ridden in one, but they obviously seem pretty popular on the 6th street scene. and are there really *no* insurance requirements for the companies currently?? Again, hard to believe. In this case, it seems that the status quo is maybe okay; though if the city was smart, maybe they'd jump in monetarily to help expand the service, with insurance, etc--good eco-friendly, anti-drunk driving PR, perhaps?

Just for the record PediChad.com is only a blog. I (PediChad aka Invidkllr) ride for Capital Pedicab and I'm not my own operating business. Just a pedicab blogger. I haven't ridden in a few years but I still keep up with a few riders and some of the gang at Capital Pedicab.

Werd, they are not like regular cyclist, in large, pedicabs actually obey traffic laws. And they do need regualtion for pedicabs, it will only take one driver getting sued before it ruins a great service.

I like both Patrick and Carl - they're good guys (the only two still there from when I was on the UTC, I think), and I'm usually more in Patrick's corner, but this time I'm with Carl. Pedicabs aren't just regular bicycles - they're slower and wider and bring along safety implications for their passengers. They thus logically would need additional regulation beyond that of cyclists.

not operating between 11:00 a.m. and 1:00 a.m.? is that a typo?