The Flaming Lips Tour With Special Guest, Cancer

Damn. I love the lips. But that really bites. they don't need to do that. I'm all for smoking in public, even tho i have been a non-smoker now for 7 years. it's the whole corporate thing I'm against.

Wayne- what gives?

Guest 62, I wish you well the next time you're searching for health insurance and you're listed as a Camel smoker.

I went to the Austin and San Antonio cigarette carnivals.

I don't smoke.

I HATE smoke and being smoked ON.

I did this because I love The Flaming Lips and while inconvenient (what with the having to lie to the Camel people and sell my soul *and address - sigh* in order to get a poster) it relatively worth it.

If you are enough of a sheep that simply being in a room where there are lots of bright shiny things that are pro-smoking convince you to smoke then you should be locked up and never let out of your house.

I talked to Wayne about this very topic after the Austin show and ultimately we both agreed that the beautiful thing is: free will. If you don't want to come --> DON'T COME.

Inciting the wrath of pirate ghosts sounds like more fun that bitching about cigarettes at a concert, so I'm sticking to my swallows.

No, he spoke to me in a dream three nights ago and said, "tell them stupid indie kids to lay off the swallows unless they want to incite the wrath of pirate ghosts." Then Scooby Doo showed up and dropped a giant turd on Daphne's lap.

I'm sure Sailor Jerry isn't saying much of anything these days.

josh, thanks for your response--i understand your position better now, and i respect it fully. i think i lost where you were going in what i read as anti-lips ire. as long as you question cigarette sponsorship across the board, not just when the lips do it, i can dig that.

jennifer@bytheairport.com, Sailor Jerry said to stop ripping off his shit.

~yawn~

The thing is it's not like the Flaming Lips is big with say, five year olds. It's a show for adults sponsored by a company that makes a product you have to be 18 to buy.

Is it rife with capitalism? Yes. But so is being a big touring band.

The author states:

"All, ostensibly, to get us to purchase and use an item that would invariably kill us."

But previously admits:

"A friendly Camel associate greeted me immediately, inquiring as to whether or not I was a smoker and directing me to free Camel products. In a daze, I bolted to the bar to grab a drink instead."

Because alcohol is a good for your body? Because consuming alcohol is smarter, better, than being a smoker?

I understand that the author chose to drink but did not necessarily choose to be accosted by Camel reps. However, much as he chose to buy a drink, he is also free to choose not to smoke or take the free fag merch. And he did choose to remain at the show after deciding he did not appreciate the sponsor.

Is smoking healthy? No. Are tobacco companies egregious corporations who want your soul? Yes.

But are the Flaming Lips on a big label who also wants your soul? Yes, Warner wants your soul. Your soul and your money. So you're already entangled in something big and ridiculous simply by liking the Lips at all. To say nothing of the tickets likely being sold by Ticketmaster, another big, rude company.

The real horror of these big shows isn't who sponsors them, but rather than the bars can get away with charging $6 for domestic crap beer. WTF?! Highway robbery.

-- jennifer@bytheairport.com

Maybe the Lips should play at the Mohawk next time...

I feel kind of disheartened that so many voices have cropped up here to defend the acceptability of artists shilling anything, and for tobacco in particular.

I smoked for 12 or 13 years, somewhere around a pack a day, and my usual brand was Camel. Because I liked it. Never felt ashamed. I was still a smoker when the whole smoking ban and its retaliation by Red River businesses and bartenders went down. I wasn't bothered by the ban or the fight against it, just that my friends and neighbors were on posters making a 'rights' issue out of it. Ignoring so many other worthwhile issues to take a stand on a filthy and deadly habit, when it was obvious from the start that it was a strict money issue for the owners to begin with. WTF is wrong with you? No shit you lost. You took up a fight you lost decades ago, when the establishment realized you're not as vocal as your parents were. Maybe if you'd taken a stand on issues that actually mattered, no one would have dreamt up a plan to deprive you of your leisure time drugs. And that goes for pot, too.

Art gets sold to corps the same way rights get sent up the river: passive acceptance.

Great article. But don't surrender, because righteous passivity has the same effect as ignorant acceptance: don't boycott Camel shows if you can get in for free and sabotage all their shit.

I'm in complete agreement, Josh, and I am sorry to hear about your grandfather. I lost two grandparents to smoking-related diseases; they were both heavy smokers. Every time someone I love lights up, it hurts. Yes, people should have the right to hurt themselves and smoke, but don't pretend you aren't also hurting the people you love.

Kerry, if you read the post more closely you'll see that my ire isn't with corporate sponsorship of live music. Nowhere do I say that. In fact, I say clearly that I respect the right of R.J. Reynolds to hire marketing firms to hawk their products via "on-premise" campaigns. The problem is that bands that align themselves with cigarette companies are aligning themselves with products that kill people. There is no safe way to smoke cigarettes. There is a safe way to eat Quaker Oats, and a safe way to drink Gallo wine, etc. etc.

I have friends in Loxsly, by the way, and I have expressed how I feel to them about my feelings regarding their involvement with these promotions.

And with all due respect, Spin Art and Airbrush tattoos aside, you're drinking the Kool-Aid if you can overlook the heartache and personal destruction that cigarettes cause for cheap, and ultimately meaningless, thrills.

My grandfather is currently in a hospital in New Zealand dying slowly of Emphysema caused by decades of smoking, free photography isn't going to cheer him up.

And for those of you that boil this down to personal choice, you're right AND wrong. This isn't merely a decision between two car brands or whether or not to eat Oreos. This is a product that contains a chemical that has been proven to be addictive. Some say more addictive than heroin. You're deluding yourself if you think that the decision to smoke or not is merely personal choice. It is far, far more complex and maddeningly difficult than that. Ask the legions of people like me that wish they never lit up in the first place and have tried cold turkey, pills, patches, and everything in between to release themselves from the grip of this awful habit.

i really appreciate this post, and i think it contains some excellent points. still, focusing on the lips ultimately just glosses over how widespread corporate (and specifically camel) sponsorship of shows has became. in the past few months, i've seen camel-sponsored shows featuring the black angels, the black keys, the laughing, the stills, loxsly, and sound team--but nobody was posting about the issue then. so is corporate sponsorship wrong only for an already-successful band like the lips (but okay for smaller bands)? wrong only when the corporation's products can kill you? or is it wrong all the time? i think these questions, not the flaming lips, are at the heart of the issue.

also, the camel-sponsored shows were actually really fun, though the ubiquity of the camel logos was a bit distracting. the shows featured exciting activities like spin art, free photography, airbrush tattoos, and so on. i did sell my soul several times over to get free cigarettes and merch, but i always threw the cigarettes away after the show. at least those are a few packs that nobody will be smoking...

Funny #47, I don't remember VW, at&t or Dell selling products knowing they are addictive and kill people.

Wayne Coyne - "People don’t realize how much productions cost these days. I’m always looking for a way to say, “Can we get to these places, do a big production and not make it $50 [for a ticket], so kids can come and see us? The audience doesn’t have to pay for it. The big corporations can."

Camel wouldn't subsidize rock shows if they weren't coming out on top in the end. The thirty or so dollars that these kids didn't spend on the Flaming Lips tickets, will come out of their pockets eventually in the form of brand loyalty to a certain cigarette. If these marketing campaigns didn't work, Big Tobacco wouldn't pay for them.

So what's worse, Wayne? Kids spending $50 on a rock show, or thousands upon thousands of dollars on an addictive chemical over the course of their lives?

This was a free show? And you are complaining why? Too bad you didn't get your AT&T Blue Room pass to ACL... Or your Dell sponsored Mohawk wristband to St. Vincent...

This post is so killer, i thought joe camel wrote it.

The Lips show had a giveaway where in exchange for your personal info, you were handed a nifty tour poster (that was otherwise unavailable for sale), a drink coupon, and some smokes. That's just evil, plain and simple, playing on the desire for swag like that poster in order to capture your demographic info and email address. Of course, the joke's really on those poor suckers who fell for it, as it all goes into databases that eventually fall into the hands of the insurance industry -- and will be used against you when calculating your health and life insurance rates as a designated smoker. Be vigilant if you weren't a smoker and got roped into giving up that info to Camel, as you'll be sorry you did so later on down the road.

Here's a weird variant. Back in May I went to see Nashville garage-rockers The Clutters at Mohawk. It was a cigarette-sponsored event, can't remember if it was publicized as such. Anyway I guess it was free, as opposed to what, five to seven bucks.

The fucked-up part: I approached what looked like the merch table to probably buy a CD. They weren't for sale, it turns out, but they were free if you gave your personal info to the cigarette company. Which wasn't even possible because I honestly answered "No" (why?) to the first thing they said when I walked up. Do I need to tell you what the question was? ^^

The Clutters are an indie band who've garnered some well-deserved buzz. I'm sure they're ambitious, and not stupid. Cigarette sponsorship must have enabled them to tour wider than they could have on their own and guaranteed them not losing money. At what cost, what trade-off? Me, I guess. Someone enthusiastic enough to brave Red River on a Saturday night to check out a buzz indie band. Who would've willingly shelled out seven bucks for the cover and, having liked what I heard, another ten for the CD. But I couldn't get your CD (and in turn help build your buzz) because . . . I'm not a smoker or willing to pretend to be one? My attention, like so much smoke, has since scattered to a hundred other bands. Some of whom gave me their CD for free after the show. (latest one: Record Hop, at the Wall of Sound Festival) And they didn't even ask for my driver's license.

Luke N. Atmaguchi

^^ Do you smoke?

P.S. My friend, a dutiful health-care professional even off-duty, attended the Lips show in San Antonio on Monday, and came to the aid of a young woman near the front who passed out during the opening act (and thankfully didn't crack her head open). Turns out she was a very occasional smoker who was taking advantage of the freebies. Under the added stress of the heat and crowding, she turned hypoxic. Happy ending: she made it back in time for the Lips, and her space was saved.

"Granted, the Iraqis/US soldiers didn't choose to find themselves in the middle of a bloody ethnic civil war..." - waltereg0

Not the Iraqis and maybe not the soldiers at the start of the war, but nobody's been drafted in this war yet so I believe the majority of them are there voluntarily.

More like corporate cock-smoking lips.

{Not that I have anything against penises in peoples' mouths, ladies. That's a very rock-and-roll event. In this case, however, the payload contains cancer.)

Seth

I think the strongest criticism joshua makes is that Wayne and the Lips can't really presume to criticise the Iraq war while being sponsored by Camel without being complete hypocrites. The Lips can earn money any way they want that gets their music out and they can even advocate smoking since the Lips are or were all smokers, but if the have a cigarette company as a sponsor then their criticism of the Iraq war doesn't have any credibility. Deaths in the entire Iraq war are dwarfed by cigarette related deaths. The CDC says that 400,000 americans die annually from cigarettes. The number of americans who have died in the whole Iraq war is 1/100th of that and the iraqi deaths for the whole war are about 1/4th or 1/5th of that. The UN says that the worst year so far of Iraqi deaths was 2006 when about 34,000 died, which is 1/12th of US smokers that year (although the difference is not so great when adjusted for the US's bigger population). Granted, the Iraqis/US soldiers didn't choose to find themselves in the middle of a bloody ethnic civil war, whereas the 400K smokers chose to smoke, but that was a choice strongly impaired by nicotine and subconsciously influenced by marketing. Certainly corporate sponsorship of music is fine given the losses caused by torrent filesharing. But if it's fine for the Lips to have Camel as a sponsor, then it ought to be fine for Haliburton and Blackwater to sponsor the Lips tour as well, since they're saints relative to Camel.

#38, thanks for your comment.

Evidently, Camel works with four different marketing firms here in Austin. This particular show was brought to us by BFG, known for their aggressive techniques. Even if you don't have a problem with the idea of the Lips taking cigarette manufacturers' money and companies like R.J. branding venues, it still seems that BFG and Camel overplayed their hand somewhat on Tuesday evening, precipitating some unwanted blowback.

We're confronted by advertising almost everywhere now, even urinals. Almost everything is viewed as fair game adspace. I, for one, can do without it being shoved down my throat when I attend shows to see bands I like. I'll pay for tickets to keep the bastards out of my field of vision for a couple of hours.

Hooray for #35 and #37. Brilliant.

Seth

i have often smoked camel lights but found that camel's presence at this show was so over the top, it was bizarre, unnerving, and distracting.

"You are a flametard... How exactly can you write an article where you can't mention the core subject matter being discussed?"

The author could have made a much greater impression by composing an interpretive dance or by flashing alternating images of tumors and the band on a dam wall.

"Isn't mentioning Camel in the article, and posting the show posters adding to the exposure that Camel wants?"

You are a flametard... How exactly can you write an article where you can't mention the core subject matter being discussed?

Isn't mentioning Camel in the article, and posting the show posters adding to the exposure that Camel wants? Next time, black out all the references to the offending corporation, or you're just supporting the cause by fighting it.

Cigarettes should be banned unless you're cool. That would help, because cool people don't smoke, people who want to be cool do.

Camel sponsors a ton of shows in Austin - and most of them aren't huge bands, they're bands that actually need the benefit of a huge advertising budget.

Emo's, Beauty Bar, Room 710, Mohawk, DeVille all host these shows regularly - and no one complains, the bands least of all because more often or not, Camel's involvement brings more people in.

I'm a smoker, so maybe my opinion won't be taken seriously but as a musician in Austin, I appreciate that some of Camel's employees want to spend their employer's money on me.

"Anyway, I'm not sure it's their "job" to inform people that they're going to be present at the show ahead of time. Maybe it should be."

Well, typically, they want their name associated with the event as much as possible.

Wonder if there was some weird law passed that says tobacco companies can't list their sponsorship in event advertisement? I can't actually think of a radio ad or flyer that's listed the tobacco company as a sponsor, but beer and soda and car companies do it constantly. Interesting...

If a sponsor's job to make anyone and everyone know that they're sponsoring an event. It's usually pretty blatant.

Interestingly, in this case, I don't know if Camel or the Flaming Lips made it so clear that the sponsorship was happening. I went to the show with no idea that Camel was a sponsor. It said nothing on the ticket. I was certainly taken aback by the garishness of their presentation. Camel was EVERYWHERE. Anyway, I'm not sure it's their "job" to inform people that they're going to be present at the show ahead of time. Maybe it should be.

tastegood, it sounds to me like it's the hypocrisy of The Flaming Lips, them compromising their morals and preaching their values when their own aren't held in high regard rather than the cigarettes or selling out that Djosh is pissed about.

How is it hypocritical for them to be selling cigarettes? Have they ever made a statement against the evils of smoking? Do they make a habit of telling other people how to live their lives?

"Corporate sponsorships are commonplace"-- so are wars for oil, littering, and spousal abuse.

Seth,

Congratulations on posting the straw man of the year. How did you know I was ALSO pro-war and a wife-beater? Also, I throw my cigarette butts in the street.

You're entitled to your hardline opinion on the issue. I also don't think the trend of corporate sponsorships in music is remotely a good thing. I think it is somewhat repulsive, even. And there is no question in my mind that your artistic integrity is at stake when you choose to sell your art.. TO ANYONE.

And to clarify the common misconception in this thread, album sales have never provided a retirement plan for musicians.

What exactly is your point? Artists shouldn't be entitled to capitalize off of their art, because touring is a sufficient way for them to earn their keep? It is absolutely their right to use their material in whatever way they like. You don't like it, don't participate in it. Somehow I doubt you manage to completely avoid the influence of corporate America on the music you listen to, the TV or films you watch, the places you hang out, the food you eat. Welcome to 21st century America!

I love music because it enriches my life. Just because I love something doesn't mean I own it and can dictate the terms of its use in our culture.

You'd be better off tilting at windmills. Or perhaps working to end one of those oil wars. That's a cause I can get behind.

"Reading this, I did wonder how a fan could know ahead of time which sponsorships that a particular band has chosen to associate with, whether it be for a tour or some other ad campaign. They're typically pretty quiet about it for fear of reaction like the one in this post."

If a sponsor's job to make anyone and everyone know that they're sponsoring an event. It's usually pretty blatant. "Taco Bell presents The Moody Blues", or whatever, is usually plastered all over radio ads and concert posters.

Hey everyone! Thanks for chiming in about this, wherever you come down on this issue.

Check out Wayne's brilliant rebuttal to the brouhaha...

http://www.thedailyswarm.com/swarm/flaming-lips-blow-smoke-fans-faces/

Wow, that's unfortunate.

While it's true that corporate sponsorships are showing up more and more these days, I think a band does have to weigh how its choices will affect its own image. I think the tone of the piece comes more from surprise at such a juxtaposition of crass commercialism with how many people perceive a band like The Flaming Lips whether that perception of independence is correct or not. Camel and smoking in general seem to be on the outs with many people, so aligning yourself with it doesn't appear to be a very good career move.

I was a little put off when I started hearing several songs off of the new Wilco album during Volkswagen commercials. It's particularly odd to hear a new album being used in ads, but I decided that I didn't mind the product and that Jeff Tweedy's gotta eat too.

Reading this, I did wonder how a fan could know ahead of time which sponsorships that a particular band has chosen to associate with, whether it be for a tour or some other ad campaign. They're typically pretty quiet about it for fear of reaction like the one in this post.

If you can't make money selling CD's/MP3's (aka Pirating) why not come up with some alternative ways to increase revenue for your band. God Forbid...Is it only ok for Wilco because its VW?

Welcome to the world of Capitalism. The Rolling Stones tours are consistently sponsored by Budweiser, Modest Mouse was on the Camel Tour a year or so ago, not to mention the umpteen Scion events, etc.

Quite frankly, the Flaming Lips/Wayne are better off without "fans" like you.

The Lips put on an extensive show and utilizing corporate sponsorship to offset the costs of an extravagent show is a smart thing to do. It also allows them to charge $30/ticket not $50 like the White Stripes for an extremely intimate show.

Why didn't you go after ACL for their Heinekin sponsorship? Or were you to busy galloping around on your high horse?

The complacency of tastegood and the other apathetic give-uppers responding here is sickening. "Corporate sponsorships are commonplace"-- so are wars for oil, littering, and spousal abuse.

Josh has decided to open his window and shout that he's mad as hell and he's not going to take it anymore. For that, I salute him. For tastegood, I'll correct your spelling mistakes below:

)))) "I'll let my favorite artists do whatever they can to support themselves."

Should have been spelled:

"I'm happy to take my position in the corporate daisy chain. Let the screwing begin!"

And to clarify the common misconception in this thread, album sales have never provided a retirement plan for musicians. Royalties from album sales are measured by pennies per album. It's always been the touring that buys Dave Mathews his tie-dyed Escalades.

The only trend at play here is ugly companies trying to buy coolness. The Flaming Lips decided it was time to sell theirs.

"Maybe if any of you could write better than him, you'd be published on austinist too."

Plenty of people write better, and get paid for their writing. Blogging for Austinist isn't exactly the top tier of music criticism, you know.

As far as the Lips and Camel go, well, you take what you can get and use it best you can. If you're doing something resolutely anti-corporate with corporate money, does it make your actions any more or less co-opted?

#17 FOR VICE PRESIDENT!

Great article. I also share your disappointment. Don't lighten up. Please keep pointing out shit like this and maybe it will sink in eventually. If you want help quitting, check out www.whyquit.com. Their methods worked for me and it's free, sensible and healthy. Good luck!

tastegood, it sounds to me like it's the hypocrisy of The Flaming Lips, them compromising their morals and preaching their values when their own aren't held in high regard rather than the cigarettes or selling out that josh is pissed about.

While all you assholes are entitled to your opinon, so is joshuahuck. Maybe if any of you could write better than him, you'd be published on austinist too.

Yeah, that's great advice, CaptainCrybaby. Lighten up. ALL OF YOU.

How dare they accept Camel's sponsorship without checking with you first!

Point A: Smoking is not illegal; it's a personal choice.

Point B: Dudes gotta pay the bills, even the Lips.

A + B = lighten up, man. It's just a concert.

I also thought of the Bill Hicks quote upon arrival at La Zona Rosa the other night. "Off the artistic roll call forever." My friends and I joked about the absurdity of it as we stood around, waiting. It frustrates me to see music I love get appropriated so blatantly for any product.

When the band started playing, Camel cigarettes were the furthest thing from my mind. They didn't remotely interfere with what was my favorite live Lips performance (the relative intimacy of LZR was a delight after seeing them at Stubbs and Bass in recent years). If Camel's sponsorship enabled them to play a smaller venue, that's fine by me.

Thing is, corporate sponsorships have become commonplace in music these days. It is a disappointment to me, but ultimately it is my responsibility as a listener and fan to not let the bands' attempt to make a living interfere with my enjoyment of their music.

Anyway, it sounds like the author of this post has a particular bone to pick with smoking. The holier-than-thou attitude about cigarettes is especially disheartening when the author decides to skip all the cigarette propaganda and head straight for the bar. One vice particularly worse than the other? Give me a break. Do you skip SXSW because it is sponsored by Lone Star or Miller Lite? Do you not listen to My Morning Jacket because they have been featured in an MGD commercial? Modest Mouse forever ruined by their decision to hock gas-guzzling minivans?

Ultimately, if an artist decides to sell their music to corporate America, that is their decision. I can disagree with it and express my disappointment, but in this particular era, with music sales down so significantly, I'll let my favorite artists do whatever they can to support themselves. In return, I will do my part to completely ignore the efforts of hated corporate sponsors to put their stamp on music that I love. And I'll do my best to let the music stand apart from the dollar signs.

Josh - While I respect your desire to vent against one of the greatest rock bands of our era, I feel the need to point out some facts that were unabashedly left out of your story.

Wayne Coyne is actually a corporate double agent planted years ago in Oklahoma City. He has engaged in espionage work against vegans, luddites, and animal shelters for over 40 years. His collection of little baby shoes is well known among those in the know.

It looks like his corporate masters have led him to be more public in the FL usually subliminal attack on healthy living in the United States. Once, after listening to Zaireeka, a man in Wisconsin bought kegs for every AA meeting in the tri-state area. Budweiser was suspected of being the root cause, but I have definitive proof it was Pabst Blue Ribbon. Groundbreaking experiments in sound? Nay, my friends, corporate brainwashing at it's most nefarious.

Josh -I'd make sure and get a wire brush and scrub off because I truly believe the confetti used in this event is laced with a radioactive isotope that will track you and your purchase of various sundries like toothpaste, tampons and toothpicks. This isotope is also able to track products that do not start with the letter 'T.' The conspiracy goes deep. Way Deep.

FACTS:

-Wayne Coyne drives a car that runs on umbilical cords

-Steve Drozd is a Russian plant and is beaming back critical infrastructure information regarding US power grid and the CIA's heroin operations

-The FL Furries are actually an elite mercenary team capable of wiping out small villages at will. They did so often, and with no mercy, in Kosovo

-The Flaming Lips have never taken acid, but developed their sound while on only highly refined pharmaceuticals and Starbucks lattes.

The one critical point you missed in this review is that the bassist, Michael Ivins, is ACTUALLY a cigarette. The wool was pulled over Camel's eyes because he's actually an unfiltered Lucky Strike.

I'd suggest increasing your security as the Lips don't take reviews like this well. I posted this anonymously with my right hand. I don't have a left one anymore. Your assumptions as to why are probably correct.

While you feel disillusioned by this event, I know the truth is much deeper and uglier than it seems. The FL are being vetted as the trigger to Armageddon.

I hope your voice will be heard and this band will go down in its own flames... of lips.

Companies like Camel choose where they spend their marketing dollars carefully. I am sure in some focus group conducted recently they uncovered an uncanny relation to smoking, Austin, TX and cool music. Just go down Red River any night of the week and see all the kids wearing skinny leg jeans puffing away like theres no tomorrow. Plus, you gotta make money somewhere and I am sure with slumping album sales The Lips are forced to make alternative decisions when looking for revenue.

"Such a fine line between clever and stupid."

-Spinal Tap

Josh, I appreciated this post. It sounds like they went over the line to me, and I share your disappointment.

Sweet mother, what are you? 16? Get over it.

EVERYTHING is sponsored now... it's a fact... they didn't change their show for the sponsor... in fact, at the San Antonio show, they made it a point to say that they were told they could sing, do, or say whatever they wanted.

Mildly disapointing? Sure

Writing an amazing band who still put on a great show because of it? Ridiculous

josh, i was affected in so many oddly similar ways that i think you may be me. it was my 5th and least favorite flaming lips show.

If only today's artists had the integrity of the legends of the past like the Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan and Paul McCartney. You wouldn't see them shilling for some corporate product.

"Here's the deal, folks. You do a commercial - you're off the artistic roll call, forever. End of story. Okay? You're another whore at the captialist gang bang and if you do a commercial, there's a price on your head. Everything you say is suspect and every word that comes out of your mouth is now like a turd falling into my drink."

- Bill Hicks

Josh,

Excellent piece. The Flaming Lips are an amazing arena band that I would have thought could pick among dozens of Fortune 100 sponsors for their tours. Sad to see they weren't more principled. I guess the sense of betrayal is that their music would suggest a sort of enlightenment that would set them above being a marketing tool for a company that seeks to kill their fans.

If it's any consolation, when X, Rollins, and the Riverboat Gamblers played Stubbs last year, US Army recruiting banners were all over the wooden fence. Don't know what the scene was like inside. Perhaps they were giving out free hand grenades with randomly-timed fuses.

Seth

nice point, lacey.

josh, your shame-smoking may be coloring things, but you should consider sending this to TFL's contact/press reps, so they know how you feel.

and the tears -- totally merited. music and fallen heroes make for emotion.

Man, I bet a stage show sponsored by a defense contractor would be awesome!!!

Ha ha. You had to hold back tears. It is just a band trying to make a living making music, take it easy. Don't be a shameful smoker. Own up to it or quite for god's sake.

Josh, good luck with quitting. It's hard enough when you're out socially without marketers trying to physically put cigarettes in your hand.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this, I don't think it's at all out of line to feel disappointed when we detect such contradictory messages from people we respect. And I wholeheartedly agree that barrage of marketing messages associated with these sponsored events really diminishes the value of the experience. Sigh.

I don't know what band you use to be a huge fan of, Author, but I wouldn't call it hypocrisy for a band who have stated in a documentary film that they lived on the road off of coffee and cigarettes for years while Wayne also specifically talks about not judging people who take drugs, much less cigarettes. The show was phenomenal and you'd had best written a review of the show instead of an aimless diatribe about coming to the realization everybody else has which is this: when bands sell out to the mainstream, their image is controlled by their label and the label's parent corp. This isn't a bearing on the people or the music. You friends must have been near the back of the venue, Author, because the only people I saw leaving were focused on the music and the show. Also, not to belabor the point, but I don't hear you saying anything about the massive alcohol distribution taking place, or the fact that the show was inherently encouraging it's attendees to stay out past their bed time.

I saw a similarly tobacco-sponsored show at LZR earlier this year (Black Keys/Black Angels). I normally shake my head at such blatant corporate sponsorship (as if that matters), but the game is raised to a different level when Camel's giving out free smokes to anyone who will take them. Good show, bad sponsor.

That sounds like an awful lot of whining to me. If they want to make a buck off their songs, even from big tobacco, so what? Isn't that what being a "rock star" is about?

I hear ya about trying to unsuccessfully quit, but come on. Why are you ashamed anyway? Is that the only reason you want to quit, because you are ashamed? You should be ashamed that you aren't wanting to quit for your health and money savings, but instead are ashamed that you smoke because other people don't like it.

"a smoking lounge with comfortable couches and littered with Camel falderal beckoning to young bottoms"

In La Zona "SO NOT SMOKE WITHIN 50 FEET OF OUR DOOR OR OUR BOUNCERS WILL KICK YOUR SKINNY FUCKING ASS BACK TO MEXICO!" Rosa?

I'm sorry The Flaming Lips sold out. That's a good write up of your disenchantment.