Waterway Ban Fails to Deter Town Lake Canoers

The Milkman is awesome.

Thanks for reminding me how dumb I can be...sometimes I forget. I haven't made any sense at all. Thanks for putting me in my place by spending the better part of your afternoon on your rebuttal. I envy you.

Milkman, you ignorant slut.

The only significant difference between canoeing and kayaking are the vessels used. "Canoe" and "Kayak" both refer to such a broad range of designs that using the terms to differentiate between calm flat water paddling and "X-Games" style Class V+ whitewater navigation is just plain dumb.

Get a dictionary before trying to talk with the grownups. I use words based on what we have all agreed they mean. You seem to see words and assign your own definitions to them. When I said "dangerous," I meant "presenting a risk of harm or injury," not "inevitably causing death."

The dangers associated with canoeing are not trivial, but they are extremely manageable, if you aren't an imbecile. Without the additional problems due to the floodgates being open, paddling an unstable vessel out to the middle of a body of water without flotation devices is risky. It's not absolutely, positively, definitely a killer, but weak swimmers are going to have trouble getting to the bank when dumped in the water, especially when hindered by street clothes and shoes. Being inexperienced only increases the risk of dumping out in the middle of the lake, even without playing around near the floodgates.

The "two young girls" ignorantly relied on other people to keep them safe. The hostel may or may not have been "at fault" through their negligence, but the two dumbasses are the ones who committed two or more crimes (if the reports are accurate):

According to KVUE (http://www.kvue.com/news/top/s... in case the link tanks), the dumbasses and the hostel were cited for the latter offense, but doesn't say anything about the former. In any case, PFDs probably wouldn't have helped them too much anyway- the dumbasses didn't drown- but them going out without them is evidence that they had no business going out alone, since they didn't know what they were doing.

Maybe these two should have been treated like "two young girls," but if that's the case, they shouldn't have been in the big city all alone. Maybe it was their parents that were negligent for not teaching them that most rivers aren't like the Brazos and nasty muddy roiling water usually means "stay the fuck away" not "jump on in." Another lesson their parents neglected to impart is that hostels are cheap places to stay in part because they don't necessarily hire the most non-stoned staff- the staff might not even be aware that it had been raining recently, much less that there was a boating ban on. I'm not sure why the younger one (17 y.o.) was allowed to stay at the hostel without a parent or guardian- more negligence!!1!!!ONE!

Personally, I do not "cower like a little girl" when crossing the street; but I do look both ways so that I do not get creamed by a truck- even on a one-way street and even when I'm crossing at a crosswalk with the light. Ignoring risk and pretending danger doesn't exist isn't courage, it's stupidity- the kind that begs to be weeded out of the gene pool. Acknowledging dangers makes it possible to minimize the risk that a minor fuck-up will lead to disabling injury or death. Dangerous stuff can be fun, but your mangled and/or lifeless body at the bottom of the run means "you lose."

Oh, and if you're going to be an internet tough guy, don't be such a pussy about it. "Down the road" is just more pathetic cry-for-help cutting. Between that and your comments regarding blow-drying your hair, I guess "Milkman" is really a dishonest pseudonym for a teenaged girl. That, or you're just another fucking feeble-minded waterhead. Either way, now I understand why you're offended by comments about these dumbasses. Sorry if I hurt your widdle fewwings.

"Life is hard; it's harder if you're stupid."- John Wayne

I'm just calling them attention whores because their myspace pictures used in newscasts pretty much screamed, "TEENAGE WHORE ALERT".

So like - maybe this little bit of fame will fill their attention quota for a few years and they can go to college and get smart and maybe get some positive attention in the future instead of being laughingstocks

I'm just calling them attention whores because their myspace pictures used in newscasts pretty much screamed, "TEENAGE WHORE ALERT".

So like - maybe this little bit of fame will fill their attention quota for a few years and they can go to college and get smart and maybe get some positive attention in the future instead of being laughingstocks.

Girl 1: Hey what can we do to get a bunch of attention today?

Girl 2: Let's go to Austin and try to die on the lake in a freak canoe accident.

Girl 1: Great!

Girl 2: NOT!

I don't care who thinks what - I personally think those girls were dumb as dog turds to go canoing that day. But it sure was a great way for a couple of attention whores to get what they thought they wanted.

#35

Canoeing is to kayaking as Sunday driving is to Indy Car driving. Canoeing and kayaking aren't the same thing. Don't get it twisted.

#36

It was totally negligent of them. They rented two young girls a canoe to use in a waterway that was deemed unsafe for any watercraft to be on. The part about them leaving life jackets out was just icing on the cake. The danger was circumstantial in this situation. Think about it like this... Sharing a picnic lunch with a friend. Not dangerous. Sharing a picnic lunch with a friend in Iraq. Dangerous.

Something doesn't necessarily have to be dangerous to have a need for precaution. Take blow drying your hair for example. I don't consider blow drying my hair to be dangerous. However, I think it's a good idea that the electrical outlet in my bathroom is equipped with a GFI. Without it you can turn something safe into a potentially life threatening situation, given the right conditions. That's why I say the danger was circumstantial in this situation.

If you whole heartedly believe that canoeing is a dangerous activity then I feel really bad for you. If things like canoeing strike fear into your heart then how are you going to handle situations in life that really are dangerous? Cower like a girl in fear of crossing the street? Cross your fingers and cry everytime you get onto an elevator? Pee your pants when you board an airplane? I honestly believe you're just trying to argue in circles. Go get some friends. Not the MySpace kind either. Some living, breathing friends. Or try out my directions I gave at the end of post #34.

pwnage!

Yes, Milkman. Canoeing is inherently dangerous.

You stated that the folks renting out the canoe without issuing lifevests along with the canoe was "Negligence". Why would it be "negligence" to not issue safety equipment for such an inherently safe activity?

What I find most amusing is that someone actually thought the person who posted a Krystal was actually her. I have to say the first thing I do when laying in bed coughing up blood is to go seek out a few day old post on Austinist to let people know about the truth.

As for canoeing in the X-games, wasn't kayaking an event back in the day?

Scooby did you really just put canoeing in the same danger category as sky diving? Really? I guess I can expect to see canoeing in the X Games in a couple of weeks.

You keep saying Darwin is going to take care of people. I think the same is true for you. I can see it now...Scooby gets ran over by the short bus on his way to the petting zoo.

Remember when slitting your wrists it's DOWN THE ROAD not ACROSS THE STREET. Have fun!

you people are a joke.

i do not need this.

Guests,

If you can't even come up with a pseudonym to talk tough behind, just go play in traffic.

hey scooby, eat a bowl full of dicks you worthless loser.

It was right in preview. Link was to www.darwinawards.com

Krystal,

I'm glad you're recovering from this little incident. I hope you come away with it thankful that you didn't end up with a Darwin Award. The girl that rented you the canoe may or may not have been more at fault than you, but please take away from all of this a lesson: you are the only one responsible for your life. The graveyard is full of people who weren't "at fault".

krystal,

sorry to hear of your injuries. pay the insensitive jerks commenting above no mind. Austin (as with many places) is full of many self-righteous know-it-alls who would rather show off their overinflated egos than feel sympathy for somene else for 2 minutes. it is really a sad state of affiars. but, i imagine they are in the minority. unfortunately they do not seem to subscribe to the idea that discretion is the better part of valor. good luck to you both in your recovery.

also...

"they don't seem to have suffered any harm, aside from getting wet."

i do believe that i was in a freaking hospital bed for the rest of the day. they did not even call my mother so i was alone, stuck with needles, in a neckbrace, and the not allowed to move a muscle. right now i am not allowed to get out of bed and i am coughing up blood! marion is in great amounts of pain and she can not sleep! so please, just tell me that no harm was done!

thank you again saying what you think is truth.

krystal a. davenport

riesel,tx

i would just like the say thank you for jumping to conclusions about everything. how can you even say such horrible things when you have no idea what you are talking about?! neither marion or myself knew of a boating ban when we rented the canoe from the hostel. if we would have we would not have gone out in the first place! also, where are these waves and whitecaps that people speak of? i am terribly sorry, but i did not see any such things until i, by the grace of god, i surfaced. not in the lake...no no the water was quite calm until the dam sucked us in. i do believe you can not see such things until you are spit out of the dam into the colorado river. i am glad that you can sit there and speak such horrible things and feel good about yourself. i almost lost one of my best friends! i thought that i was going to die! would you still be so quick to write such horrible things if it had happend to one of your loved ones?!

krystal a. davenport

riesel,tx

Way to cut and run, Scooby! You should run for office.

I figured I'd play the devil's advocate. I was demonstrating a feasible set of circumstances to fill in the numerous holes in the set of facts we have. The 400 word article in the Spaceman is pretty light on facts.

My point is that respondeat superior isn't automatic- it's up to the plaintiff do demonstrate that the negligent act was in the scope of the agent's employment and for the principal's benefit. You're quick to assume in favor of the two dumbasses. You can't just assume facts to support respondeat superior.

Both girls were taken to the hospital and released. There is no mention of any injury requiring treatment. I'd venture to guess that their injuries were limited to a few bumps and bruises, if not solely soiled drawers.

As far as a jury finding for the plaintiffs, I have little doubt that you're right, if your assumptions are correct. Doesn't necessarily make it just, however.

"I may be an anonymous douchebag, but at least i'm not one of you bitter internet assholes that posts your ineffectual whines on here every damn day.

thats all for me today, back to work!"

Yes, please, get back to work. You're a complete idiot.

NOT IF I'M ON IT!

I don't think we get to just make up facts to defeat respondeat superior, Scooby. There's nothing in the article even hinting that the hostel worker was acting outside the scope of her employment.

Texas doesn't recognize NIED; the tort will be any sort of physical injury, opening the door for punitives. At least one of the girls was taken to the hospital for treatment. I'm really curious what kind of protocols the canoe/boat rental places and the city follow when the lakes are shut down like this. Bet you dollars to donuts a jury (if it gets that far) finds with the plaintiffs.

"I may be an anonymous douchebag, but at least i'm not one of you bitter internet assholes that posts your ineffectual whines on here every damn day."

Uh.... yeah you are.

No shit, zeus. I know what the law is, that's why I phrased the outcome as a done fucking deal.

I, and you, are assuming that the sketchy reports are based in truth. There is probably a lot more to the story than we're hearing. It could turn out that the submoron that rented the canoe did so against the instruction of the employer, with the intention of pocketing the rental fee herself*. If the agent (dumbass clerk) was acting to benefit herself and not the principal (the hostel- dumbasses because they hired a dumbass like the clerk), in a manner which was not authorized by the principal (renting out canoes when told not to), respondeat superior might not apply in this case.

From the facts as we know them, I can only hope that a jury would find that the girls were 51% or more responsible for their own ordeal. Also, now that I've thought about it, they don't seem to have suffered any harm, aside from getting wet. What's the tort? Random negligence is not a tort- it has to cause some harm in fact. Does Texas have a tort of negligent infliction of emotional distress?

* which could explain why no lifevests were issued- they might have been locked away, since they're easier to secure than canoes.

Are any of the Highland Lakes actual lakes? I don't think so. My understanding is that the large bodies of water in the area are the man-made result of damming up the Colorado River at various places, making them reservoirs and not lakes.

But I don't say this with any certainty. I am, how you say, no scientician.

Um why isn't Town Lake really a lake again?

As opposed to... Lake Travis?

help me out here, i really don't understand.

I may be an anonymous douchebag, but at least i'm not one of you bitter internet assholes that posts your ineffectual whines on here every damn day.

thats all for me today, back to work!

in a small craft. It's good to finish sentan

You know it's not like that, but there were whitecaps on Town Lake the last couple of times I got a look at it and whitecaps = waves. I'm not an expert sailor but I know that if there are whitecaps on any lake or river and you're in a small, you need to be prepared to either dock or prepare to abandon ship.

Anyone with half a brain in their head and a teaspoon of common sense wouldn't have gone canoing with the current so swift unless they were an experienced kayaker but I guess it takes all kinds to round out this world.

I heard that they're filming the sequel to a Perfect Storm on Town Lake right now, they want to take advantage of the waves and whitecaps while they can.

"But don't let me rain on your parade, internet assholes. Continue being anonymous douchbags."

...says the anonymous douchebag.

Look, the hostel was - beyond any doubt - irresponsible for renting them a canoe when there was a boating ban and for letting them rent the canoe without life vests. That was fucking STUPID. But those girls should also be held responsible for getting to the water's edge, seeing the waves and whitecaps, KNOWING that rivers in this area and in their own area have been flooded (because they're from Wacko, right?) and deciding to get on in the water anyway. That was fucking STUPID as well.

Do you honestly think that's an analogous comparison, Scooby? Is there a LAW requiring all brick makers to issue safety equipment when selling their bricks? Was the brick maker aware that there was a BAN on using bricks due to unsafe conditions? Did the brick maker hire someone to sell bricks who had no idea that either of these conditions existed?

Do a quick google search for "respondeat superior" to learn a little bit more about the law, and the responsibility that companies actually do have to their customers. Not the make believe non-comparison you're throwing out.

I hurt myself as a kid (not seriously) jumping my bicycle off of a rickety little ramp constructed from a piece of plywood and some bricks.

Were the bicycle manufacturer, lumber company and brick makers negligent in selling the bicycle to my parents and the building materials to the homebuilder down the street? Was the homebuilder negligent in leaving construction materials available to be swiped? Were they more responsible for my bumps, bruises and wounded pride than me? I think not.

The only dumbass thing that the hostel (i.e., the owners) did was hire the ignorant employee Julie Westermann, who "told police she did not know the lake was closed when she rented the canoe to the teens" (according to the police report quoted by the Spaceman). The fact that she didn't give them lifevests is pretty good indicator that she wasn't authorized to rent out the canoe. Of course, since they made ~$10 off of the transaction and are the only ones with more than lint in their pockets, the owners of the hostel (or their insurance company) will bear the greatest punishment.

These two dumbasses (and their lawyers) will get paid handsomely for their dumbassery. They should, instead, be thankful that they weren't struck down by the hand of Darwin.

If i was a 17 year old girl not from around here who doesn't go canoeing much, I don't think I would know that a. Town Lake is not really a Lake, b. upstream/downstream things that "everyone" knows and finally c. if it is unsafe, why would purveyors of rental canoes, who ought to know all this, rent them a canoe (without lifejackets for that matter)

But don't let me rain on your parade, internet assholes. Continue being anonymous douchbags.

They're dumbasses because everyone knows you go upstream first and then float downstream when canoeing.

Um. they're dumb asses because anyone who takes a glance at the lake right now can tell you shouldn't go canoing. There are white-caps, and 3-4 foot waves on it this morning. You don't need to know about about a boating ban to realize that the "lake" is currently a fast moving river.

How are the teenage girls the greater dumbasses? They're not from Austin, not familiar with the boating ban on the lake, and probably not familiar with laws requiring life jackets for kayaks. I guess they could have looked at the lake and decided not to get in, but is there any way they could have known about the danger of the dams?

The hostel is located [i]right there on the lake[/i]. It knows about the flooding and the ban. It knows about the Longhorn dam, venting water just downstream. As a company doing business renting canoes, it is charged with obeying all applicable laws, such as life jackets.

If you want to call the girls dumbasses in this, fine. But that makes you a dumbass.

I would think that the hostel would provide life jackets as a matter of routine, since they are required by law. If they didn't routinely provide the life jackets, they would surely have been busted repeatedly in the past.

Also, They weren't wide-eyed foreign girls; Krystal Davenport and Marion Pollard are from Waco. You don't need a foreign passport to stay at a hostel, just less money than desire for privacy.

Unfortunately, these two girls are going to own the hostel after the suit, even though they were the greater dumbasses, here.

2 girls from out of the country staying at a hostel, hostel renting them the canoe. They knew nothing of the ban, canoe did not have life jackets either.

I'm not usually one to quickly point out a lawsuit...but...really? This actually happened? I can understand how the two girls would be ignorant enough to jump on the river/lake. But what was the rental place thinking to not only ALLOW them on but to not provide life jackets? What the hell?

Negligence.

It appears the Statesman and CBS are running the same story right now.

Who rented them this canoe? Does the boating ban on Town Lake have any effect on the rental places on its shores? C'mon Statesman. These are obvious questions to ask when you run a story like this.