Kill 'Em All, Let Tom DeLay Sort 'Em Out

That's the catch - there's no assurance that someone with a concealed weapon permit is sane, or somehow unable to commit violent crime. However, the insane and criminal probably aren't going to be seeking out concealed permits in the first place - if you want to get a gun and carry or use it illegally, you're going to, permit or no. If you're already planning on shooting a bunch of people, you're probably not going to be worried so much about getting busted for carrying illegally...

Ok, allow everyone to carry concealed weapons. That'd take care of the next Whitman, or Cho, or Klebold and Harris.

But...who's to say, that everyone who applies for a concealed weapon permit, is sane? That everyone who buys a weapon is sane? After all, someone thought Cho was sane.

"In places where licensed gun ownership is encouraged, violent crime - including gun crime - drops sharply. There's really very little debate on that matter."

There's plenty of debate on that matter - since the primary researcher who presented that data (John Lott) turned out to be a liar and a sockpuppetteer every bit as bad as the main guy on the other side (Michael Bellesiles).

The only honest thing you can really say is that there isn't compelling data to prove either side, and probably never will be. Too many confounding variables.

This is the problem. I recognize the rights stated in the 2nd Amendment so I'm automatically lumped into the crowd that voted for Bush and loves DeLay. Bullshit, in my short voting history I've stuck mostly to libertarians, as well as some Dems and some Repubs.

Besides, it seems like the "Left" or "Democrats" should be totally pro-gun. They often speak with skepticism about tyrannical government, especially the current administration, so then why the hell would you want to hand over your guns and be unarmed?

I'm a liberal. Shit, I'm left of liberal. I'm for abortion rights, gay marriage, un-fucking the environment, getting religion out of everyone's face, educating the hell out of our kids, and getting our troops out of the greed-and-lie based war that the asshole in the White House forced us into. I also think that private, licensed, and responsible gun ownership is a really, really good thing. It can be a scary world out there, but that doesn't mean that you have to be scared all the time.

Well said, fellow commenter...I'm a very liberal UT student who would love the right to conceal-carry on campus.

We liberals really ought to (A) separate the gun control issue from the typical party-lines bullshit and Delay association, (B) recognize that the simple *right* to conceal-carry does NOT mean every student on campus is issued a gun -- it's just a *right* to do so.

Isn't being a liberal about being (in most every rational case) pro-personal freedoms? Come on!

I am a Concealed Handgun License holder.

I am an alumnus of UT.

I often thought, as I sat in a classroom of 400 people, how easy it would be for someone to walk in off the street, and start killing everyone in sight. What would happen? What would I do?

Under the current laws, I would be unarmed. If the shooter locked the door, and began shooting a la Vatech - odds are good that I would be killed.

If CHL was allowed on campuses (as it is in almost every other public place) I would likely have my gun.

Would I be a huge hero? Would I save dozens of lives? Who knows. Maybe I'd get plugged before I got a shot off - maybe I'd be the lucky one and drop the shooter before he even pulled the trigger. Who can say.

But, I would have a CHANCE TO DEFEND MYSELF.

The simple truth is this:

The U.S. Constitution gives me the right to protect myself using a firearm.

The state of Texas has determined that I am eligible to own a firearm, and I have gone through rigorous background checks and testing to prove I am qualified to carry a gun concealed on my person, in public.

Now, I've never drawn my gun for any reason, nor have I had cause to. But if someone were to come into a restaurant (remember the luby's in kileen?) and start shooting at me, I would shoot back.

If you know anything about the numbers behind CHL holders, you know that they, as a group commit crime at *far* lower levels than most of the population. Most of them know how to handle guns, have respect for the responsibility that comes with a CHL, and would protect themselves and others if it came down to it.

Since Texas has allowed CHL, has violent gun crime gone up?

No, it has not.

Have there been mass shootouts in the streets between CHL holders?

No.

What has been the net impact of CHL in the State of Texas?

I would argue a positive one... an armed populace is much more difficult to pray upon.

I am a liberal libertarian atheist, I vote democratic, and I hate Tom Delay... in fact, I refuse to join the NRA mainly because they are a shill for assclowns like Delay.

That being said, I really despise how 'my side' (liberals) look at guns, and gun control.

Can we please be rational, and use statistics and science to determine what gun laws are effective?

Can we please stop demonizing inanimate pieces of metal and plastic?

I voted against Bush (both of 'em), and I wish that scumbags like DeLay and Perry would just crawl back under whatever scumbag rock they came from. I consider myself more liberal than most people, even moreso than people like laura that are scared that I vote, for whatever reason. Being a liberal doesn't mean that I'm a dumbass, though - just because the current crop of Democratic politicians think that they have to pander to the safety-soccer-mom demographic and speak out against guns, video games, and that darn rock music, doesn't mean that supporting basic constitutional rights makes someone a friend of Rush and O'Reilly.

(And, you know, if their handlers told whoever the bright shining hope of the "Left" was this week that their voting base loved guns, red meat, and pornography, they'd switch their platform in a hot second. They're just in it for the votes, just like everyone else.)

I'm a liberal. Shit, I'm left of liberal. I'm for abortion rights, gay marriage, un-fucking the environment, getting religion out of everyone's face, educating the hell out of our kids, and getting our troops out of the greed-and-lie based war that the asshole in the White House forced us into. I also think that private, licensed, and responsible gun ownership is a really, really good thing. It can be a scary world out there, but that doesn't mean that you have to be scared all the time.

See also: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2807602702866411553&hl=en - check around 21:10 for someone who lost her family in the Luby's shooting, and her perspective on gun control...

What really makes me scared is not guns.

It's the fact that people like you marc and stew VOTE.

And every other asshole like you who voted for bush and people like Delay.

NOW THAT'S SCARY.

In places where licensed gun ownership is encouraged, violent crime - including gun crime - drops sharply. There's really very little debate on that matter. Overzealous firearm regulation is driven primarily by overblown anecdotes and terrible, unfortunate, and *very* unlikely tragedies like what happened at VT this week.

A determined crazy dude is going to find a way to kill a bunch of people, no matter what you do. Maybe if he ran into a student with a CCW permit, a handful of those deaths could have been avoided, but really, it's all a tragic anomaly that makes for really good TV. You're more likely to get mauled to death by a dog than get caught up in something like this, but boring everyday statistics just aren't as media-friendly as a nice fresh splatter of innocent campus gore.

And, jesus. Fuck Delay. He's a king-sized douchebag, all around. Let him be forgotten, and let's talk about the other stuff on its own terms.

Damn y'all are some hippies around here. It's obvious to me that if some of those students had been packing, lives could have been spared, but I guess not everyone's as rational as me.

yeah, that's just it. sure, you give everyone guns on a campus, village or town, and you're murder rate may well go way down. of course, just like everything else in life, this benefit has its cost.

assuming the goal here is to end crime so that we can all move just an inch closer to a better world for all of us...is a completely gun-armed society really the way to go?

to any reasonable human being, the answer is quite clearly no. the massacre happened at Virginia Tech because (1) the school's leadership didn't respond appropriately to constant complaints about this student, and because (2) VT didn't have adequate security measures in place for such incidents.

i mean, the guy was diagnosed with mental imbalance, and his fellow students were legitimately afraid of him. and he just walked into several school buildings with an automatic weapon. hello? fix the system. don't just start handing out guns.

Delay should've stuck with his original job: he was a bug exterminator before he started his career in politics. the world of public policy craftmanship is no place for a man with minimal statesmanship skills.

i bet the people in this town are real pleasant to be around:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55288

Look at this mugshot photo. Then, go watch the video on charlierose.com. How on earth does this disgusting shit remain so smug? It boggles the mind.

Did Stew just blame psychiatric drugs for the VT shooter's actions?

Can we start calling you Scientologist Stew?

It was sarcasm.

I know damn well who that douchebag is.

i agree with jooley ann did anyone else hear that awful interview on NPR! What a tool.

But let's run with some of this "ideas". Let’s have guns in schools. People learn best with examples... so let's see what happens when students are armed and it's time to turn in that final exam to that shitty prof. who has been riding you all semester.

Sure let's give guns to students who feel their entire lives rest on the grades they receive in college. Because it’s not like some are not already under tons of pressure. But knowing that my fellow students are carrying a gun makes me feel WAY BETTER ABOUT THE END OF TERM PRESSURES.

BRILLIANT!!

There's no reason for anybody to waste another dime or a moment of time on this Delay character.

He screwed over the citizens of Texas by scheming up the Republan re-redistricting and laundering corporate contributions to influence elections to the Texas Lege.

He's also a chickenshit. He ran off with campaign contributions to use for his legal defense.

Why anyone would buy his book or put his mug on the tube, let alone listen to bullshit, is a mystery.

That's F'ing nuts dude. So that way if a student gets angry on the spot he doesn't have to go all the way home to get his gun?! He can just bust out a piece and take people down? Arms races DON'T work. Let's arm everyone so that people are too damn scared to do anything? That's stupid logic. I guess it is 4/20 so I can let it slide and assume you're just high.

Thanks for the link, Laura.

Gaw, what a douchebag. He was on NPR a few weeks ago touting his book and saying much of the same things -- about the criminalization of politics, and how the Dems are evil because they'll stop at nothing...including going after poor innocent guys like DeLay...to win. Unbelievable. His hypocrisy is so flagrant it's galling.

He also mentioned in the NPR interview that he feels the lobbyist system is *the way* to run the gov't. Special interest groups? Bring 'em. on. He believes that these groups represent the people, and that it's a politician's job to listen to 'em and play with 'em. Huh. What ever happened to the poor shmucks -- I believe they're called constituents -- who vote the politicians into office? Awww, screw them. What do they know?

He has lost it. The Reps must be incredibly embarassed.

laura, are you really asking who Tom Delay is? Or was that a sarcastic comment attempt?

I do agree with you though. The guy is a total idiot and always has been. How he ever got into office I'll never know. Too many other stupid people like him in the world I guess.

Tom Delay is not a politician anymore. Otherwise, he could be held accountable for using a tragedy to further his own political agenda. Stay classy, Tom.

It wouldn't be "allowing" students to carry firearms, that's their right, no one has to allow you to exercise your rights.

VT had a concealed handgun policy that lasted until a few years ago, no shootings before then.

I'm not saying VT should have given every student a AK-47 when they registered as freshmen, but to recognize the right for a student to conceal a firearm on campus doesn't seem like a bad idea.

Congress, please don't pass gun control legislation in direct response to this incident.

Must I remind you that hard cases make bad laws, remember the Patriot Act? Besides no one seems to be focusing on the bigger culprit here: psychiatric drugs.

Go to www.charlierose.com/ and watch the recent Charlie Rose show on the main page. Go past the second blue line, that part of the interview startes as 53:30.

WHAT A DUMB FUCK!!!

Who is that guy and way has no on shut him up??

just curious, Stew:

care to explain why you think allowing every student on a college campus to carry a loaded firearm would be a good idea?

we're all waiting for you to say something stupid. ready.....GO.

hahahah

well, no one ever accused Delay of being in the least bit intelligent. so, it's no surprise that his mix of boldness and ignorance would produce a statement like this. jesus.

Too soon, but maybe he's on to something.