RG4N Posts Plan for Wal-Mart-Free NorthCross

hope is apparently not above lying to get her way

Hope,

I like this better than the Wal-Mart plan. I'm being honest about my expectation that it won't be able to make Lincoln nearly as much money as would the Wal-Mart plan, because, frankly, you guys seem to be forgetting that Lincoln, as the owner of the property, ought to be the one making this decision, not you. Unless you want to let Lincoln decide what color you can paint your house, of course.

I _don't_ like people misappropriating New Urbanism in order to build something fairly low density (which is what this thing is). Even compared to the Triangle, which is a modest attempt at urban infill, this plan falls short. New Urbanist "village centers" in cities our size don't average 2.5 stories. That kind of risks polluting the brand image, if you will.

M1EK -

The RG4N team that pulled together our example included (among others) folks who do commercial real estate development for a living. One of their objectives in participating on the design team was to provide input that would result in a design concept that would be more profitable for Lincoln than the current plan would be.

Also, please keep in mind that this plan is an example. What's important are the concepts embodied in the example.

I get the impression that you will find a way not to like what we do no matter what we do, which puzzles me given that we are, at the very least, headed in the direction you would seem to have us go. Perhaps I have misunderstood your comments. But we appreciate your interest in what we're doing and would love to have your help if you're interested in advancing New Urbanism in Austin.

Hope (RG4N vice president)

"something that can meet the needs of the surrounding neighborhoods and, more importantly, Lincoln (ie making money)."

That's the point. I doubt very much whether Lincoln can make money with a VMU development this _small_. Even the Triangle is a bit on the small side, but saved by the fact that they can charge big rents to UT students (who can hop a quick bus to campus that's better than most shuttle routes). Nobody's going to pay that kind of rent premium to live at Anderson/Burnet, which means more height is required to make up for the lower rent-per-unit.

The plan you guys just pitched, on the other hand, is signficantly _less_ dense than the Triangle, even if we only consider the part that's already been built (future phases are denser than what's there now).

Alright, Dan. You made your point, already. Jeez. ;-)

I think the words "sustainability" and "Wal~Mart" are mutually exclusive. Their business model just doesn't allow for a lot of touchy-feely, new-urbanist, crunchy-granola progressivism.

The W-M credo is, build large tilt-wall boxes then sell a bunch of foreign-made goods as cheaply as you can while paying your employees no more than the prevailing wage.

If you ask me, the scary part of this is that the site plan got fast-tracked through city hall while the Big Box ordinance was stalled. At the very least, I think it makes sense to force Lincoln / Wal-Mart to go through the same process that everyone else will have to follow starting in a month or two. If they come through that process with a 225,000 sq ft, monster, than more power to them.

As a (young) resident in one of the surrounding neighborhoods, I would be excited about this plan. At the meeting last night, it definitely felt like some of the enthusiam left the room as the plan was rolled out, but I think that was mostly the blue-hair crowd, who secretly prefer the blighted mall to redevelopment but won't admit it. I commend the rg4n people and their those who worked on the site plan for coming up with something that can meet the needs of the surrounding neighborhoods and, more importantly, Lincoln (ie making money).

Let's just hope Lincoln can pull their heads out of their rears and realize the opportunity here. Sure, it will take a little more work and creativity than letting Wal-Mart run the show, but the opportunity to make money and build something that will enrich the surrounding neighborhoods is worth it. Oh wait, Lincoln is based in Dallas...

If you ask me, the scary part of this is that the site plan got fast-tracked through city hall while the Big Box ordinance was stalled. At the very least, I think it makes sense to force Lincoln / Wal-Mart to go through the same process that everyone else will have to follow starting in a month or two. If they come through that process with a 225,000 sq ft, monster, than more power to them.

As a (young) resident in one of the surrounding neighborhoods, I would be excited about this plan. At the meeting last night, it definitely felt like some of the enthusiam left the room as the plan was rolled out, but I think that was mostly the blue-hair crowd, who secretly prefer the blighted mall to redevelopment but won't admit it. I commend the rg4n people and their those who worked on the site plan for coming up with something that can meet the needs of the surrounding neighborhoods and, more importantly, Lincoln (ie making money).

Let's just hope Lincoln can pull their heads out of their rears and realize the opportunity here. Sure, it will take a little more work and creativity than letting Wal-Mart run the show, but the opportunity to make money and build something that will enrich the surrounding neighborhoods is worth it. Oh wait, Lincoln is based in Dallas...

If you ask me, the scary part of this is that the site plan got fast-tracked through city hall while the Big Box ordinance was stalled. At the very least, I think it makes sense to force Lincoln / Wal-Mart to go through the same process that everyone else will have to follow starting in a month or two. If they come through that process with a 225,000 sq ft, monster, than more power to them.

As a (young) resident in one of the surrounding neighborhoods, I would be excited about this plan. At the meeting last night, it definitely felt like some of the enthusiam left the room as the plan was rolled out, but I think that was mostly the blue-hair crowd, who secretly prefer the blighted mall to redevelopment but won't admit it. I commend the rg4n people and their those who worked on the site plan for coming up with something that can meet the needs of the surrounding neighborhoods and, more importantly, Lincoln (ie making money).

Let's just hope Lincoln can pull their heads out of their rears and realize the opportunity here. Sure, it will take a little more work and creativity than letting Wal-Mart run the show, but the opportunity to make money and build something that will enrich the surrounding neighborhoods is worth it. Oh wait, Lincoln is based in Dallas...

The folks at RG4N are a bunch of elite racist. I only base this comment on comments made by some of your fellow members. Comments such as "we have enough damn taco shacks" and "more than enough non-white people already come to this part of town" accompanied by "the only people who shop at WM steal shit." - Seems like a great group.

Again, I'm willing to bet there wouldn't be this much uproar if it were a Saks or Neiman Marcus going in with the same set up.

Besides, as its been mentioned before. The land is zoned for it, the traffic corridors were set up to handle the amount of traffic that would be created and finally, it's private property and you don't own it. Come to think of it, I drove by the site the other day and didn't see one neighborhood amidst all the stores and retail spaces.

If anyone want's to pay for the re-design I've got planned for my home (which includes knocking down the garage built by someone else, removing the concrete from the drive and adding a second story), I welcome you starting a fund drive. When you came to my home you must have missed the large pile of construction materials of reclaimed wood and the five trees lining the street. Woopse. Try again.

"These renderings are nice ideas along the lines of an assignment for an architecture student. They may have even inspired some sort of collaboration with Lincoln, if they had come along before it already had finalized plans to redevelop its property."

And let's note: the redevelopment of Northcross Mall was a news item six to nine months ago (long before anybody knew Wal-Mart was going to be part of it). Where were these people then? Well, coincidentally, they only became advocates for this low-mid-density slightly-more-urban plan after they found out Wal-Mart was coming instead of somebody else.

I'd like to see something like this get built at Northcross if it can be done without screwing the ice rink, Lincoln, or yes, even Wal-Mart, who so far has just tried to play by the rules. But that's not what these people want; they want no Wal-Mart period, and I don't know that Lincoln can make money without them.

"Private property rights should mean that you get to build whatever you want on that piece of land you OWN as long as it's for legal use."

As long the land is zoned for that use, and not contradictory to deed restrictions for that land.

And that's the heart of RG4N's problem; Northcross is unequivocally zoned for the kind of use that Lincoln Properties is proposing for it.

These renderings are nice ideas along the lines of an assignment for an architecture student. They may have even inspired some sort of collaboration with Lincoln, if they had come along before it already had finalized plans to redevelop its property.

Private property rights should mean that you get to build whatever you want on that piece of land you OWN as long as it's for legal use.

I don't like the city telling me I cannot add on or augment my home without their permission, therefore I don't like the city telling the landowner of Northcross what they can or cannot build. If you agree with the first statement then you have to agree with the second.

It isn't as if the Northcross owners want to put a landfill or oil refinery on the site so why is Wal-Mart so bothersome to some people in the nearby neighborhoods?

A Wal-Mart at Northcross amounts to replacing urban blight with slightly less crappy retail than what was there before. If the RG4N people are hoping for a development like the Arboretum (e.g. Neimans and Saks).... well, it ain't gonna happen.

By the way, Triangle Phase I is a fair amount more dense than this proposal - but Triangle Phase II is where the dense really starts hitting the ity.

My initial impressions:

Not Triangley-Enough, as I expected. Most of this is two or three stories; not tall enough to make up for the lack of retail space.

I like the imposition of a street grid.

But big demerits for claiming to be in favor of high-density development and then coming up with something less dense than the average suburban apartment complex.

I think Robert is missing the point. The neighborhood has felt so marginalized by the City and developer that in desperation a bunch of people have spent their time and put forward a vision of what they want in their neighborhood.

Unfortunately, some people equate private property rights with the right of a land owner to build anything or do anything they want on the property with complete disregard for their neighbors. The Supreme Court long ago decided that it is actually ok for city's, and by extension the neighbors, to have a say in how a private land owner uses their land.

The problem is that both the City of Austin and the State of Texas have tended to enshrine the ridiculous notion that private property owners, especially the big developers, should be able to do almost anything they want without much genuine consideration of community input or regulation. Thus, Northcross will be likely be home to a big super ugly Wal Mart and an opportunity will be lost. Of course, the opportunity will present itself again in 20 years when Wal Mart abandons the Northcross structure in favor of an even larger format store that will hover above Lake Austin.

That's not stalker-y. No, not at all.

Does anyone else see the absurdity in RG4N coming up with a plan for someone else's privately owned property?

Ya know what? RG4N President Paige Hill's property at ***EDITED*** is pretty boring and uninspired, a "Wal-Mart" of homes if you will.

I'm going to come up with a plan for her yard that includes "groovy, vertical-mixed-use, green-urban layout, with tree lined streets and tucked-away parking garages". Then I'm going to hold meaningless neighborhood meetings and lobby the city council to implement my vision for her property.

***This comment was in violation of our comment policy and has been modified as indicated above -- Austinist.com