Austinist Interviews Living Things

You guys have been pretty vocal about your political views in the recent past – and it makes fucking sense, given the circumstances we find ourselves in today.  I dunno how much you’re able to keep up with what’s been happening lately, being on the road and all, but what do you make of Miers, Libby, Delay …?

Well, I think the main thing that’s going on right now is a sort of what was supposed to happen.  Whenever anything gets super … bad, good is only going to come from it. I think only right now is when we’re finally getting that small little moment of victory.  It seems like to the most of America, George Bush isn’t looking so hot. 

Harper’s published this fact in a recent issue about how it took three and a half years after the start of Vietnam before the majority of the American public disagreed with the war, while Iraq took something like a single year. And look how we view that debacle now.

But here’s the thing, though – during Vietnam they’d show injured soldiers on television.  We don’t see anything – the fifteen thousand wounded, we don’t even know what they look like.  So it doesn’t get into the living rooms of America, and it’s almost like we don’t even know what’s really going on.  You put soldiers with no arms on TV, they’ll pay attention to that.

Also, the majority of Americans have a five-minute attention span.

[At this point, the conversation somehow went off on a tangent, tracing a precarious path from listless media corporations to Rupert Murdoch to the Internet to the possible censorship of all electronic information – save porn – to Ralph Fiennes in Strange Days and finally to the burgeoning market for Chinese babies on eBay. Owing to the faulty nature of our iPod recorder and our prudish sense of propriety, we’re skipping this portion of the interview.  Sorry.]

Originally, you guys were supposed to put out a record with Dreamworks, which later got bought out by Interscope.  What was the whole deal with this?  Already you guys were pretty vocal about your liberal-leanings, and after the label transitioned to the new company, things awfully shaky.

Here we were, this band from St. Louis, with this idea. Dreamworks was one of four record labels that wanted to sign us.  And we picked them because they were this big company that was still an independent record company.  We were like, “This is a great opportunity!” – the company supported our message.  Then they went under, and our album and our band went over to Interscope, who bought them out.  And Interscope said, “No fucking way. We’re not having the band doing this sort of shit on our label.”

There wasn’t talk of a compromise?

Oh, there was talk of a compromise.  But what were we going to be, a band that preached their shit? And said, yeah, we’ll suck their dicks?

Well, you can imagine how many bands would say, “Yeah, why the hell not.”

I know, it’s that fear thing.  That’s how society’s built up – make people fear things and they’ll give in.  So, ironically, Jive Records was the only one of the majors that said, “You know what? You guys can do whatever the fuck you want. As long as you don’t kill anybody.”  So we signed with them.

[Adds as an afterthought] And every major label has cheesy fucking pop bands; that’s the only way they can stay in business. 

So finally this full-length album, Ahead of the Lions, was made.  Here’s what I got listening to it the first time: you guys are really … tight.  What I mean is, it’s obvious that you’ve been playing shows for quite a while, and it’s not like you came up with some material and jumped into the recording studio to figure things out.  I would say that there’s a feeling of “release” in [Ahead of the Lions], and I think this has a lot to do with the fact that you weren’t able to put it out initially.

Yeah, by the time the record was finally done, it was a ... celebration.  We’d done pre-production and recorded some songs during one period and then the rest during a separate [time].

So you guys worked with Steve Albini - the guy did Nirvana, PJ Harvey, The Pixies, and tons of other great bands.  What was it like working with such a legendary producer?

Pretty amazing, because he shared the same sort of values as we do – you have your values and you stick to your guns.  At no point did he ever “un-stick” to his idea of what he is.  So it was like, “you guys have your music, you guys know what you want to play, I’m here to capture it.”

So there wasn’t any sense of, “This is what I think people are going to buy!”

No, he doesn’t care.  He was strictly like a recording engineer, in the truest sense.  We did everything with him, [apart from] my vocals.  I like to do that on my own.  It was a great compromise, with him capturing the band.

So Albini published an essay a while back called “The Problem With Music” –

Yeah, which is awesome.

Yes, and also really shocking at the same time.  You realize that even though you’re dealing with millions of dollars changing hands for a particular album, the actual musicians get a paltry piece of that.

Well, not only that, but when you do get money, you have to fight for it with all the people who control it – and that’s the problem.  You have to go through a manager, who then goes through a business manager –

I’ve never understood why there are so many middlemen.

Well, there are too many.  And they all take their percentage.  So by the time you get it, and the taxman’s come along, you’ve got nothing left.

When we signed our first publishing deal, we went to the publishing place, picked up the checks ourselves and immediately deposited it in our bank – so that no middlemen could get in the way.  We were like, “Fuck you, man, it’s our fucking money!” [Laughs]

So off of the royalties for t-shirts and posters and whatnot, do you see any of that?

Well, a band makes their money off of shit like tonight, playing a live show, selling merch.  Record sales? You don’t see a dime.

So you basically have to tour your asses off.

Yeah, you have to tour your asses off.  We’re getting ready to do a bunch of t-shirts for our own tour, and [for] one of the t-shirts we’re gonna make … I’m going to print the Steve Albini piece.  Because a lot of people ask us, “well, how do you get a record deal?” And it’ll be like, “Well, here’s a t-shirt…” [Laughs]

And you’re going to disillusion a whole bunch of would-be musicians [Laughs]

Yeah, but here’s the truth, ya know?  You need to know what you’re getting into, so that when you get into it, you’re smart.  And that’s the point of the Albini piece.

Absolutely. 

In an interview a while back, someone described you guys as “swathed in black leather with unruly shocks of black hair busting in every direction” [Laughs] You guys have, eh, cleaned up your look quite a bit from the punk days, no?

[Laughs]

[It’s worth mentioning that Lillian is glammed-out in a full-piece skintight white jumpsuit]

I mean, they described you as the quintessential punk band.

Right, right, it was just funny.  For us, every show is a different show.

Do you guys do costume changes every night?

Every night.  I try to reinvent it every show. 

God, that must be expensive.

Well, I’ve got my own seamstress.  [Laughs]

[Eve pitches in] He means the Salvation Army.

[Laughs] One dollar buys a lot.  We like to do a different show every night.  We don’t have a setlist, either – we’ll just call it out.  Our shows either totally fucking blow – like it’s the worst thing you’ve ever seen in your life – or they’re totally fucking awesome.  They’re never in-between. A lot of our peers take what they’re doing too seriously.  And yet they don’t have shit on people like the Beatles, or the Stones.

Well, yeah, a lot of it’s silly posturing nowadays.

Exactly!  So you need to embrace the fact that, you know what? You’ll never be as good as them! So we’re all just a bunch of performance artists. 

So just have a fucking great time on stage.

Yeah, exactly, have a fucking great time! And stop looking at your shoes. [Laughs]  If you put any of these guys in a room with Keith Richards, it’d be pretty obvious – they can’t play a fucking guitar.  So you might as well know what you are.  You’re the guys performing at Chuck-E-Cheese.  It’s all just entertainment.

Ever make the mistake of playing the same song twice in a show?

Oh, yeah. But like this show tonight, we got added at the last fucking minute, so there’s nobody here.  So by the time we’re at the last song, there’ll be people in the room, so we’ll just repeat the first song. [Laughs]

So what would you say is the best setting for listening to Ahead of the Lions?

I’d say drive down to Atlanta, go down to the Little White House – which is where Franklin D. Roosevelt was living in while governor.  Go down there, go outside, bring a bottle of red wine, bring a couple of lighters, bring the U.S. Constitution.  And burn it!  While our CD’s playing.

Oh god, you guys are gonna be in so much trouble for saying that.